Thanks, for the compliment, YCHTT. I didn't "find" it though. DTEU found the SPIEGEL article, I just translated it.

Let me start by emphasising Aardvark's point; a statement that we cannot know the full truth of the matter without access to the original documents is not an endorsement of paedophilia. It's, at most, a request that we do not indulge in witch-hunts.

I wasn't proposing any conspiracy theories; my reaction to LifeSiteNews is that of someone heartily sick of those who spin stories to suit their own agenda. Whether main-stream media, government-backed, lobbyist-endorsed or fuelled by personal crusade, spin is still, IMHO, a form of lying to the public to get your own way.

The "original report" may or may not have been written by somebody with access to the booklets in question. I choose to suspend judgement on that until such time as I see the original booklets (something I am aware is unlikely to happen). I would suggest that the only way any of us will determine what exactly was in those booklets would be to find them and get them independently translated.
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ychtt,

The thread heading is 'Germany and EU to Legalise Paedophilia'. This is misleading spin and lies.

The booklet was produced in Germany alone and there is nothing to link it to the EU as an institution. There is nothing to suggest that the German Federal Government is seeking to legalise paedophilia nor to suggest that the EU is doing likewise.

The facts are that the booklet is no longer produced and has been withdrawn from the website. There will be no further distribution through official channels. That cannot be interpreted as a move to legalise paedophilia.

The booklet does not advocate the legalisation of paedophilia, but, IMHO, makes misguided suggestions that are open to misinterpretation by people who have an unhealthy interest in children's private parts. It is a 'health' document and is not a legal equivalent of the UK white paper where new laws are mooted.

The original article posted seeks to misinterpret the item. I would take the article that chikrodah has translated as being the German position on the matter. Certain phrases are open to misinterpretation and the booklet will no longer, quite rightly, be published or distributed.

LifeSiteNews.com and the contributors take a very strange perspective on the matter: 'It is, he said, "State-encouraged incest, which in most civilized societies is a crime." The development is, he suggests, a natural outcome of the rejection of the Judeo-Christian moral order'

I think that gives a clue as to the motivation of the publishers of the original item.

In fact it is not the encouragement of incest except to those of a perverse mind. There is no suggestion that the booklet encouraged sexual relations between family members.

I wonder about these people who cry wolf over non-existent paedophilia all the time and what drives them. I don't see paedophilia around every corner, but some people use its presence as an excuse to impose their will on others.

UKIP would look otherworldly if as a party it called for an investigation into a booklet that has been withdrawn and prosecutions in another country for unspecified crimes. I am sure the original complainant, who lives in Germany, will have taken legal advice if she felt a prosecution was necessary. I am sure the German Federal authorities know better than UKIP what the German law is and what offences exist.

What sections of the German Federal legal code have been breached? What crime has been committed under German law? I don't think UKIP, with its desire to leave the EU, should be interfering in the legal processes of another EU member country. That could lead to all sorts of complications if the Germans tried, in return, to impose holocaust denial as a crime on the UK.
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I agree with wowbanger that this move to paedohilia does seem the next step from our elites. It is the last taboo and with everything else being justified by empty Liberal terms like consent or if it does not harm others, this will soon be with us. It also fits into the promotion of Hedonism.
However, Aardvark and Chikrodah do rightly point out that what we havew here is an interpretation that does not seem unbiased so unless the organisation admits it we have no evidence to act on. There are many groups in the West promoting adult - child relationships so this will not be long coming.
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Indeed David, we need to be on our guard and not distracted by misinterpretations that will weaken our case. We will appear like the boy who cried wolf if we react to rumour and speculation and when something real and important does happen we could well be ignored.
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It's been clear for many years that the legalisation of Paedophilia will be the last civil rights battle.
Indeed many on the intellectual Right have said this time will come.
The Left and many Libertarians have been working towards this since the 1960s and 1970's.
If the people wake up in time and put people in power to stop this I hope it goes much further and we can round up everyone involved and lock them up for life.
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Originally Posted by British-Conservatism:
It's been clear for many years that the legalisation of Paedophilia will be the last civil rights battle.
Indeed many on the intellectual Right have said this time will come.
The Left and many Libertarians have been working towards this since the 1960s and 1970's.
If the people wake up in time and put people in power to stop this I hope it goes much further and we can round up everyone involved and lock them up for life.

Well said BC.

I am so disgusted by the reaction of people to this.

Whilst the official line of "we cannot believe anything without the original documents" sounds reasonable, people are so quick to reserve judgement - they instantly want to believe evrything is ok and it must be wrong, despite the fact that:

1) The booklet has been withdrawn
2) "The Cologne Public Prosecutors Office has filed charges against the author, Ina-Maria Philipps and the BzGA - concerning an open invitation to the sexual abuse of children."

But of course, you won't see these people saying the same when they're sat in front of the television lapping up their daily dose of propaganda.

All the evidence bar the smoking gun is there, yet people excuse the system and themselves and couldn't care less.

Aardvark - I have never heard you come out in condemnation of anything to do with federal government or the EU, let alone something as shocking as this.

No doubt you'll come back with a load of unwarranted rubbish about reserving judgement until the "facts" are known, despite the fact that you have no reason to doubt the authenticity of the article and no reason to reserve judgement.

It's ineffectively people like you and chikrodah who are destroying this country with your apathy when the answer is staring you in the face.

God I wan't to throw up ! :-)
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I have read a number of articles over the years about leading members of the German Social Democrats and Left Party who advocated the legalisation of paedophilia back in the 1970's.
Of course many of the British Trotskyist and Communist Left have openly talked about abolishing the age of consent for a long time now.
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ychtt,

As the article is an old one we do not know the result of the Cologne Prosecutor's Office case, but surely that is even more proof that the title of the thread is wilfully misleading. Either the Germans and the EU are legalising paedophilia or they're not. The fact that a prosecutor investigated suggests that the thread title is at best bollox and at worse a lie. Nowhere in the article is the EU mentioned and the person who produced the booklet is susceptible to investigation.

How can you possibly argue that this is proof of the assertion contained in the title?

PS I am not apathetic, but it is difficult to remain motivated when I seemingly spend half my political life arguing with some incredibly dense people about nothing.
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Originally Posted by chikrodah:
Thanks, for the compliment, YCHTT. I didn't "find" it though. DTEU found the SPIEGEL article, I just translated it.

Very well done again for that.

Originally Posted by chikrodah:
Let me start by emphasising Aardvark's point; a statement that we cannot know the full truth of the matter without access to the original documents is not an endorsement of paedophilia.

As for "we cannot know the full truth of the matter without access to the original documents" I don't believe you would even believe it, if the original document did substantiate it.

You'd probably make up some weak excuse about "mistakes" or misunderstandings" because you're probably in total denial about the scale of the abuse.

Do you accept it would be an endorsement of paedophilia if the original documents were checked and verified as accurate ?

Originally Posted by chikrodah:
I wasn't proposing any conspiracy theories; my reaction to LifeSiteNews is that of someone heartily sick of those who spin stories to suit their own agenda. Whether main-stream media, government-backed, lobbyist-endorsed or fuelled by personal crusade, spin is still, IMHO, a form of lying to the public to get your own way.

You offered no evidence to support your claims.
That is a conspiracy theory.
Even before the translation, you said:
"There is an educational tour available which includes videos and a song-book, but again, there is no way of telling whether the items complain about exist or, if they do, whether mistranslation is involved."

Then you went off into a rant slaggin off LifeSiteNews without any supporting evidence.

Now you have translated the subsequent article with specific quotes included you have apparently now changed your stance to "we can't beleive it without the original documents"

Originally Posted by chikrodah:
It's, at most, a request that we do not indulge in witch-hunts.

But you were quite happy to "witch hunt" after LifeSiteNews without any supporting evidence weren't you ?

A bit hippocritical to say the least.

To be honest I'm only suprised you didn't make up the translation to suit your own apparent agenda.

However, you've done a great job with the translation so I hope you take my above comment as a compliment.

I notice the "Spiegel Online" website uses specific quotes which you have successfully translated.

Do you believe there is any reason to doubt this publication and the quotes included ?

Are there are legal implications if they misquote the original booklet ?

Is there any possible reason to doubt the authenticity of the precise quotes made in the article ?
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this is an extremely unpleasant subject but it's true. many children now & in the future are being TRAINED as sex slaves. people have to know about this.

trauma-controlled children have been produced by the CIA International Trafficking in Children program for years. thousands & thousands of children have been involved since this started in the 1950s. the creation of an easily manipulated brain was first seen in POWs after suffering from massive trauma. US scientists found they could recreate this - if purposefully sexually abused as a baby, the child's brain automatically disassociates itself from the trauma & creates an 'alter' personality which can later be manipulated by the child's 'owners' or 'handlers'. the child's 'front personality' has no idea of the activities of it's 'alter personalities'. in the tragic case of JonBenet (the murdered US Pageant child), i believe these were her parents. you can spot the CIA children all the time. some now grown & molded into pop-singers & other celebrities today (Disney's 'The Mouseketeers' for example) to encourage the breakdown of society through lyrics & 'role-model' status. they are sexually explicit (the 'no-panties' girls for example) & horribly self-destructive. they are continually told what to do & how to look. just take a look at their lives & see it is no life at all. the horrible thing about it is, they actually don't realise what they're doing.

this child 'mind control' is popular amongst high-profile paedophiles (politicians, media moguls, etc) because they obviously don't want the child to 'tell tales'. i don't know about poor Madeline McCann, but i've read that the apartment was possibly being 'watched' by a paedophile ring as it's particularly exposed (it's a ground-floor, corner apartment) & i don't trust the Portuguese authorities AT ALL. the 'Casa Pia' (Portuguese government-owned) orphanage scandal where many high-profile names are accused of paedophilia, is still not closed & it started in the 1980s.

see google videos on CIA International Trafficking in Children & Satanism. hard to believe for good folk, but there are actually men out there dressing up in robes & performing wierd stuff on kids.
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