Wednesday 20 August 2008
Sixtheutreaty - epetition response
We received a petition asking:
Originally Posted by :
“We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to immediately call a referendum about the new EU Amending Treaty (signed by Tony Blair 23 June 2007).”
Details of Petition:
“The Blair government has denied the electorate its democratic right to vote for/against this treaty, claiming that the red lines have not been crossed. It’s now known that the Cabinet has been lying - not just one, but two red lines have been crossed. 1) The EU foreign policy - Britain ISN’T actually allowed an opt-out clause. The EU foreign minister in all but name not only conducts policy but also makes it, as Continental politicians have admitted. ‘Why does it matter how do we call him?’, Sarkozy asked rhetorically. The EU FM is the supremo of the EU foreign ministry in all but name, and directs EU embassies around the world. 2) The Charter of Fund. Rights - again, non-Britons such as European Commissioners admitted that this opt-out is invalid and that the CFR applies to Britain like to every other member state. Other petitions do not even point this out, mine does. I want not only to be promised a referendum but also to inform the Cabinet that Tony Blair did not secure the red lines.”
· Read the petition
· Petitions homepage
Read the Government’s response
The Lisbon Treaty has now completed its passage through both Houses of Parliament in the UK following 25 days of debate. The Bill received Royal Assent on 19 June and the UK ratified the treaty on 16 July.
On the question of a UK referendum on the Lisbon Treaty, the House of Commons voted on a referendum amendment to the Bill on 5 March 2008. That amendment was defeated 311-248. The House of Lords also voted on the need for a referendum on 11 June. The outcome was 280-218 against a referendum.
We believe the Treaty is good for the UK and good for the EU. This Treaty adjusts existing treaties, in the same way as previous EU amending treaties negotiated by Baroness Thatcher, Sir John Major and Tony Blair. All of these treaties were scrutinised and approved by Parliament without the need for a referendum. Parliament remains the correct place for debate and decision on such treaties.
The UK’s red lines are secure. There is no threat to our existing labour and social legislation; our Common Law system and our police and judicial processes; our independent foreign and defence policy; nor our social security system.
There is no ‘EU Foreign Minister’ under the Lisbon Treaty. As is the case now, it would be national governments, acting by unanimity, who set the EU’s common foreign policy. And it would be national governments who task the new High Representative for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy to take forward activity.
The Charter of Fundamental Rights records existing rights. All the rights contained in the Charter are already part of EU law, as established by the European Court of Justice, and so are already legally binding on all Member States, including the UK, when they implement EU law. The Charter does not change the legal effect of these rights.
The Government responded to concerns about the binding nature of the Charter and worries that it might affect our social and labour legislation, negotiating a UK Protocol to the Lisbon Treaty, which sets out how the Charter will apply to the UK. The Protocol is not an opt-out. It guarantees that the Charter does not create any greater rights than already apply in EU law, nor extends the powers of any court - European or domestic - to strike down UK laws
[Rep]
"Government says no to democracy yet again". We have not had a government which believes in democracy - real democracy - probably since the war, possibly even at the outbreak of WWII when numerous polls showed the populance was against going to war again.
I don't think Britain has ever been really democratic. Its just a propaganda stunt which the populance has swallowed. I cannot think of one government which has agreed with popular opinion on a wide range of issues. We have an unrepresentative parliament.
[Rep]
Originally Posted by Gregory Lauder-Frost:
"Government says no to democracy yet again". We have not had a government which believes in democracy - real democracy - probably since the war, possibly even at the outbreak of WWII when numerous polls showed the populance was against going to war again.
I don't think Britain has ever been really democratic. Its just a propaganda stunt which the populance has swallowed. I cannot think of one government which has agreed with popular opinion on a wide range of issues. We have an unrepresentative parliament.
Only because fringe Parties, or those more enlightened within the mainstream Parties, have failed (or been denied the right) to get their message across.
[Rep]
Originally Posted by angelman:
so do you think that it would be better to have something akin to the Swiss constitutional requirement to have a referendum on a multitude of things? A much more democratic way of doing things. I presume that it would be just as easy to organise in this country with 60m-odd people as the 7.5m in Switzerland. I believe that these happen about 4 times a year.
Unfortunately our governments (Labour and Conservative) seem to think that we are OK with a vote every 4 or 5 years and that the MP we vote for speaks for us on all issues
Yes, well we know what the Westminster mafia think: that they are holier than thou and that the electorate simply need to be told everything rather than asked. If only the electorate would break out of tribal voting and start to exercise some degree of intelligent voting. What is needed is for everyone to vote for anyone but the mafia parties. Anyone, just to get them out. It would be like a breath of fresh air wafting over the nation.
Yes, I like the Swiss system where they hold referrendums on all major policies of state. It is very democratic.
[Rep]
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