I speak as someone with neither a criminal record or ANY criminality in my background, and in that I am far from unique, especially amongst the older generation (I’m 60+)

Originally Posted by rjt:
Perhaps the bear would rather I stayed unemployed or on benefits to make up any low paid work I could find until I am 65 at his and other taxpayers expense. Or perhaps it is better that I work in a full time Job that I enjoy and pay my taxes and don’t rely so much on the state.

Sorry, pleased don’t take this as a personal attack because it isn’t.

Maybe it would be better if you and others in your position did find yourself restricted to low paying jobs, or even spent periods unemployed, and did so along with a whole lot of other people with a criminal record in order to send a clear message to younger people that criminality was NOT a thing to get involved in since apart from anything else the outcome would be dreadful for them.

Originally Posted by rjt:
People make mistakes and deserve second chances, nobody has the right to keep punishing me. I would add that if I do commit any criminal offence in the future I would expect the Judge to take the view that I had not taken the benefits of the second chance society has offered me and sentence me to a lengthy period of imprisonment.

Engaging in criminal behaviour is not a mistake. It is a deliberate act. As for second chances, why should this be the case in the event of crime?

It’s not as if someone has screwed up an expensive workpiece in a factory and that it then has to be scrapped, then by all means don’t sack them on the spot, give them a second chance, but why give a criminal a second chance?

It’s well said you cheat me, shame on you. You cheat me twice, shame on me.

In any case it’s not a question of being continually punished, it’s a question of a persons future career prospects being determined when some career require the highest moral standards and that includes NOT getting into crime.

Criminality is directly linked to morality. The two are mutually exclusive. Where a person of high moral standards is required for a position then a criminal record from anywhere in their past shows that they are not such a person.

I do wonder how strict “positive” security vetting is these days, and if the records of grandparents, including any known political affiliations they had, are still taken into account.
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I'm a convicted sex offender.


Do I win?
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Originally Posted by Lazyguy:
I'm a convicted sex offender.


Do I win?

Only if no one else was involved!:-)
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Originally Posted by The Bear:
Only if no one else was involved!:-)

I raped myself.
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Originally Posted by Lazyguy:
I raped myself.

Something somebody said to you? :-)
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Originally Posted by The Bear:
I speak as someone with neither a criminal record or ANY criminality in my background, and in that I am far from unique, especially amongst the older generation (I’m 60+)



Sorry, pleased don’t take this as a personal attack because it isn’t.

Maybe it would be better if you and others in your position did find yourself restricted to low paying jobs, or even spent periods unemployed, and did so along with a whole lot of other people with a criminal record in order to send a clear message to younger people that criminality was NOT a thing to get involved in since apart from anything else the outcome would be dreadful for them.



Engaging in criminal behaviour is not a mistake. It is a deliberate act. As for second chances, why should this be the case in the event of crime?

It’s not as if someone has screwed up an expensive workpiece in a factory and that it then has to be scrapped, then by all means don’t sack them on the spot, give them a second chance, but why give a criminal a second chance?

It’s well said you cheat me, shame on you. You cheat me twice, shame on me.

In any case it’s not a question of being continually punished, it’s a question of a persons future career prospects being determined when some career require the highest moral standards and that includes NOT getting into crime.

Criminality is directly linked to morality. The two are mutually exclusive. Where a person of high moral standards is required for a position then a criminal record from anywhere in their past shows that they are not such a person.

I do wonder how strict “positive” security vetting is these days, and if the records of grandparents, including any known political affiliations they had, are still taken into account.

I will tell you why give a someone a second chance, because people do learn from the past and not everyone reoffends you would have me punished for the rest of my life I dont deserve that. I have said I acept that for some jobs I would have to decalre my conviction and that it could have a bearing on me getting them. But I fail to see why for the majority of jobs I should have to keep declaring me conviction.

The courts punished me, nobody else has the right too and I did spend a long time unemployed whislt my conviction was not spent and took low paid work when it was avaialable, and your taxes helped pay for it but I would rather not rely on you.

My conviction has no bearing on my ability to do my current job, why should I declare it.
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Originally Posted by rjt:
I will tell you why give a someone a second chance, because people do learn from the past and not everyone reoffends you would have me punished for the rest of my life I dont deserve that. I have said I acept that for some jobs I would have to decalre my conviction and that it could have a bearing on me getting them. But I fail to see why for the majority of jobs I should have to keep declaring me conviction.

The courts punished me, nobody else has the right too and I did spend a long time unemployed whislt my conviction was not spent and took low paid work when it was avaialable, and your taxes helped pay for it but I would rather not rely on you.

My conviction has no bearing on my ability to do my current job, why should I declare it.

It's good to see someone has turned their life around and has benefited from a second chance - well done as for The Bear I'm minded of a quote by a man from Galilee "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone "
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Originally Posted by The Bear:
Something somebody said to you? :-)

Geneticists.
The same people who worked on Gene Simmons' tongue.
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Originally Posted by rjt:
I will tell you why give a someone a second chance, because people do learn from the past and not everyone reoffends you would have me punished for the rest of my life I dont deserve that. I have said I acept that for some jobs I would have to decalre my conviction and that it could have a bearing on me getting them. But I fail to see why for the majority of jobs I should have to keep declaring me conviction.

I agree that some people learn from what happened to them not to commit a crime again, but some do not, and if the circumstances are “right” will go on to commit a criminal act again and do so.

What’s more if the ridiculous concept of a ’spent’ conviction is put aside, as I absolutely believe it should be, the message that then goes to those that have not but might be inclined to commit a crime is that if they do they are in essence going to be marked for life.

This will in many cases make them at least think twice before committing wrong, especially if they are young and inexperienced in life or are mixing with the ‘wrong’ types.

Originally Posted by rjt:
The courts punished me, nobody else has the right too and I did spend a long time unemployed whislt my conviction was not spent and took low paid work when it was avaialable, and your taxes helped pay for it but I would rather not rely on you.

The courts punished you for your crime.

You then faced the results of your criminality, not as a punishment but as a consequence of your evidential criminality.

It’s not a nice thought for you to live with but live with it you must. Once a criminal, by definition always a criminal, maybe in recession, but still a criminal.

Originally Posted by rjt:
My conviction has no bearing on my ability to do my current job, why should I declare it.

Because you have proved your capability for criminal behaviour by having committed a criminal act and a prospective employer should have the right to decide for themselves if they are willing to accept that risk, for risk to them it is, and offer you employment.

Your past behaviour shows that your character, your mind and your behaviour is capable of involving moral turpitude once and so is capable of doing so again, a thing that anyone who must decide if to engage with you must be able to take into account.

In my opinion that you have chosen NOT to disclose your criminal past is clear dishonesty on your part, since you must have been either been aware of at least have had cause to suspect that if you had you would not have been engaged in your present work.

That actually opens up another reason why convictions should never be ‘spent’, the possibility of a time coming when someone who knows of your criminal past would be in a position to blackmail you. That would open up all sorts of possibilities, maybe not in your position, but certainly in the case of people in positions of greater or different trust.

I’m sorry if what I’ve written offends you, it’s not been my intention to deliberatly attack you in any way, but it is what I genuinely believe in regard to this matter.
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rjt> To be honest you are best to ignore people like Bear. I would prefer peple to not have to put up with this CRB rubbish. For a start Tony Blair sat back and watched over 3000 new criminal offences come to pass, so what is classed as a criminal these days is frankly a murky area.
Secondly a lot of so called criminal behaviour is based upon perspective. The Bear is a Tory voter, many people (take the republican community in Nothern Ireland) would consider him a criminal based upon his voting choice. However he is not criminalised because of this so considers himself not to be a criminal (a matter of perspective to many).

Our current system is a joke, the CRB system is abused, people like bear support that and are best consigned to the dustbin of the past with the liberals and tories that wrecked Britain.

Ea of dune
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