At least times will a bit more interesting. I remember the seventies and me Dad connecting car batteries to 12v bulbs before he gave in and used candles like everyone else. Evenings were spent playing board games and cards. The news was full of ranting shop stewards and battling strikers.

I was ten, the Summers were long and Britain was alive!
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We must be similar ages, and I too recall the three day weeks and the electricity being cut off randomly, and often when you were in the middle of an interesting tv programme.

Stock up on the matches, candles, dried foods (milk, potato, rice, packet soup/foods) first aid, soap and water sterilising tablets. Other than that, help!
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I really think its time to be moving out of here.

The Government/EU can lock every one of is into the country overnight,lets not forget,they just made an order to recruit 3,700 port and border police types.Friday they mentioned an amount of 34,000 more police and inspection squads,what chance freedom if this is so?
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Originally Posted by a swansong 4 europe:
We must be similar ages,

I'd take three day weeks and red Robbo any day over what this country has become. At least we all had a bit of spirit in us. For the last ten years our fantasy economy (I think this will become a standard phrase soon) has dulled us all. We were told by big business and government how lucky we are to be able to have the latest bit of tat from China and pay for it tomorrow.

Now we live in a lawless virtual police state. I stopped being shocked at stories of PC madness or the latest knifing or plane highjackers working at Heathrow ages ago.

I really don't care anymore. I do however look forward to the day (soon I think) when we will all bite back.
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Originally Posted by BonnieDundee:
Patriotism on any serious intensity for nations has been a terrible thing historically. It hasn't really been a glue except for authoritarianism. It is about removing natural associations and creating artificial, abstract bonds for large social units where centralised authoritarianism can prevai.

I can't begin to understand where this view comes from. Why should London subsidies Liverpool? If the decision was made on pure self interest then the result would be fragmentation on a grand scale.

Its also not true to say patriotism has not been a glue except for authoritarianism. In Europe nation states have, until recently, been becoming more liberal over the centuries, countries like the UK, France and the Netherlands have fought bloody wars in its defense against authoritarianism. That would not have been possible without patriotism.

And to say patriotism is about removing natural associations is just incomprehensible. The very driving force of patriotism is natural associations, indeed it seeks to widen and strengthen these as much as they can bare.

Nations are the only defense the common people have against massive agglomerations of cash, highly organized and regimentalised minorities and hostile regimes. Nations can not exist without patriotism.

True patriotism can and has be used by evil and/or stupid people but so can any other motivational force. By its nature it is a benign force which has been more successful than any other concept is inculcating co-operative effort. Moreover since it draws its strength from individuals inevitable preference for the familiar to try and wish it away is like trying to wish gravity away.

I'm quite sympathetic to a lot of the views and ideals you put froward. However in this case I think you have been swayed by the simplistic analysis of traditional left. Their analysis has always been driven more by opposition and prejudice than rationalism or reason and is unworthy of a serious debate.
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Originally Posted by brian pearson:
I'd take three day weeks and red Robbo any day over what this country has become. At least we all had a bit of spirit in us. For the last ten years our fantasy economy (I think this will become a standard phrase soon) has dulled us all. We were told by big business and government how lucky we are to be able to have the latest bit of tat from China and pay for it tomorrow.

Now we live in a lawless virtual police state. I stopped being shocked at stories of PC madness or the latest knifing or plane highjackers working at Heathrow ages ago.

I really don't care anymore. I do however look forward to the day (soon I think) when we will all bite back.

Totally agree. Anything has got to be better than this soulless societal PVS we are in.
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Just thought I'd throw my two penneth worth in.

Why is everyone so looking forward to disaster scenarios? Some think it's the 'end of civilisation as we know it' like biblical thunderers of old; some want to 'tear everything down' and start again. Some think the answer is to chuck out 'all the foreigners' just like we threw out all the Jews in the 14th century. Some think the answer is to have everyone shot who doesn't think the same way they do.

Heaven help us, this is an extreme political forum. Maybe folk are just bored.

The fact is this will be the sixth downturn in six decades and the sixtieth in sixty decades. It might be deeper and/or longer, but we'll all come out of it sooner or later.

The key thing is this. Will Britain come out stronger to take advantage of the next upturn? or weaker and NOT able to take advantage of the next upturn. On current political management I think we'll come out weaker.

China might well come out stronger and that would be the fault of the West. We've spent trillions of dollars on China produced consumer tat we could have done without. And now we're going to spend more billions dumping all that tat into land-fill.

But, look. If we stop buying then China grows weaker. The middle classes have expectations and China has over a billion mouths to feed. Britain, US, Germany, Hong Kong, Japan have all been the world's manufacturers and they all turned into high tech manufacturers or got out of it. Just as China is beginning this journey we are heading into the downturn and it may be too late.

If Britain can fnd a government that is pragmatic above all and prepared to put its own citizens first, then we can grow stronger out of this downturn. I don't see that government in waiting.
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We're bankrupt. In devestating debt. We can't aford to make what we presently import.

Our least worst option is to get right into a United States of Europe.

Even now the EU are telling Brown to get our budget straight.
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Originally Posted by The Bear:
We're bankrupt. In devestating debt. We can't aford to make what we presently import.

Our least worst option is to get right into a United States of Europe.

Even now the EU are telling Brown to get our budget straight.

I'm guessing you'll be voting for the LimpDumbs in 2009! :-)
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Today the news is full of recesion. Will Hutton is now on Sky news telling everyone it was obvious it was coming and blaming it on the house market and the city.

So where were all these experts a year ago? .......... They were coming on telly telling us how rosy the outlook was. They know sod all.

To us that actually go out into the real world of industry, it was fairly obvious that the 'fantasy economy' was about to go over the edge.

Have a look at some of the responses I got when I started the House crash thread. Mostly from 'industry experts'. Yet, we trust these idiots to invest our money and assume they must know best.

The last thing we need is to join further the corrupt EU. Although no doubt our great leaders will see it as an excuse to hand us over. God help us.
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