Just reading Dawkin's God Delusion. Been a long time since I felt like standing on a chair cheering because of something I read.

The fundamental issue of this age is the retreat from reason and empirical inquiry in favor of childish indulgent self delusion. Dawkin's is leading a counter offensive against the crack troops of the hoards of irrational stupidity, the religious. With there furious demand that we respect their pathetic fairy tales and exempt them from the standards we apply to any other assertion.

Lets just get this straight, maybe science needs a bit more work, but to compare the Big Bang to the "idea" that some supernatural force made the universe in order to falter its vanity and then sent a load of dildos to tell us about is palpable horseshit. And that's about as coherent as any Abrahamic faith gets, from there its all down hill to burning bushes and Arch Angels (mini Gods) delivering lectures in caves. Most of the religious texts we are invited to believe are instruction manuals written by the creator of the universe read like the ravings of special educational needs adolescents on PCP. I'm mean, God's Balls, if you believe any of that you have got to be, all rhetoric aside, a weak minded, credulous jerk off who has abandoned dignity and critical judgment and in doing so has foregone any claim to being taken seriously. Get a grip.
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UK economy 'worse than thought'

The CBI, the UK's largest employers' organisation, has warned that the UK economy is deteriorating faster than it previously thought.

There was "no doubt that the mood has darkened in the last two or three months," its director general Richard Lambert warned members in a letter.

Forecasters, including the CBI, had been "over-optimistic" about the economic outlook, he added.

High inflation and slowing growth have prompted fears of a possible recession.

BBC NEWS | Business | UK economy 'worse than thought'
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Originally Posted by JTSutherland:
UK economy 'worse than thought'

The CBI, the UK's largest employers' organisation, has warned that the UK economy is deteriorating faster than it previously thought.

There was "no doubt that the mood has darkened in the last two or three months," its director general Richard Lambert warned members in a letter.

Forecasters, including the CBI, had been "over-optimistic" about the economic outlook, he added.

High inflation and slowing growth have prompted fears of a possible recession.

BBC NEWS | Business | UK economy 'worse than thought'

Are we supposed to give credibility to what these 'experts' are now telling us?

People on these forums have been forcasting the forthcoming economic crisis for the last year. Given the choice between listening to people who are involved in the real world of business and those idiots in their ivory towers I know who I choose.

The governments forcasts for the economy have been pure fantasy. Unfortunately it is us that will suffer when tax receipts don't match up to their extravagent spending plans.

The Labour party....tax and spend. Nothing changes.
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Originally Posted by brian pearson:
Are we supposed to give credibility to what these 'experts' are now telling us?

People on these forums have been forcasting the forthcoming economic crisis for the last year. Given the choice between listening to people who are involved in the real world of business and those idiots in their ivory towers I know who I choose.

The governments forcasts for the economy have been pure fantasy. Unfortunately it is us that will suffer when tax receipts don't match up to their extravagent spending plans.

The Labour party....tax and spend. Nothing changes.

While I agree with your sentiments entirely Brian I must correct you on one slight, but crucially important, comment.

Labour haven't so much taxed and spent as borrowed and spent. The public debt of the British Government is 600 and something billion quid. Moreover it is rapidly breaking the EU demanded rule of not being more than 40% of GDP. Thats 40% of the entire wealth generated by the UK in an entire year, the equivalent of a guy with an average 25k a year job owing 10 grand.

It is a cast iron dead certainty that the economy is going to not merely stop growing very shortly but start contracting, thus pushing up the PSBR (Public sector borrowing requirement) ratio against GDP regardless of whether or not the government try to borrow even more than they are now. They will of course do exactly that under the one maneuver in their armory against this kind of depression, New Deal Keynesian public works. Although rather than build the Hoover Dam the British Establishment will probably spaz the wonga on the mother of all diversity awareness programs.

This will tend to rapidly escalate the public debt at the exact moment that tax returns are collapsing. Pile on the doomed attempt to sustain bankrupt banks by pouring in borrowed billions and the result could be the bankruptcy of the British state itself, who employ 1 in 5 people in the UK. Credit Crunch Armageddon.

The sad thing is that no amount of public spending can revive the UK economy, anymore than a corpse can be resurrected by pouring Beluga Caviar up its ****.
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I'll agree on that.

The main aim of New Labour is of course to remain in power. The income tax con was to give them credance of being a party of low taxes. You are right Wowbanger, they have borrowed massively with little to show for it. Brown's naive claim that they only borrow to invest could ultimately bankrupt the country.

They are now running the economy like the silly people who borrowed like hell in order to live the good life and are now realising it aint that good. Whilst many may lose their flash cars and sales of plasma tv's will dwindle God knows where the country's economy will end up.

And still these experts tell us that it's not that bad. They tell us that inflation is still low. They tell us unemployment is low.

Browns boom has gone unchecked for too long. But then of course he couldn't put a stop to it. If he had then what else was left. What else was there apart from the illusion of great wealth that the British people took hook line and sinker?

Blair knew the game was over. It will soon be over for Brown. He'll be off giving lectures on economics or world poverty for vast sums. It will be you and me who will be left to face the music and I can't think of a song that will describe the mess we will be in.

I am no economist but I do know we are about to enter totally uncharted waters.
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I copied these 2 articles which I think you will find interesting. The first is about Distributism, the second on how the Russians and Chinese are more content with their governments than Americans.

Taki’s Magazine, edited by Taki Theodoracopulos

VDARE.com: 08/07/08 - Why Do Chinese, Russians, Like Their Governments So Much?
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Originally Posted by brian pearson:
I am no economist but I do know we are about to enter totally uncharted waters.

I agree. It could end up as the 1930s depression combined with the 1970s energy crisis.

What I'm wondering is will it turn out like the 1990s recession that resulted in no new political or economic movements, or will it be the beginning of the end of globalised capitalism? The 1930s depression gave birth to new economic theory by Keynes which challenged Victorian classical economics. Will there be renewed interest in the Keynesian theme resulting in the uprising of new political movements because the establishment refuses to change its economic stance?
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Originally Posted by Wowbanger TIP:
I'm mean, God's Balls, if you believe any of that you have got to be, all rhetoric aside, a weak minded, credulous jerk off who has abandoned dignity and critical judgment and in doing so has foregone any claim to being taken seriously. Get a grip.

Perhaps this is for another thread. But I would say that anybody who, like you, claims to have a complete grasp of The Truth and seeks to dismiss the point of view of anybody else simply because they have a different viewpoint from yourself is acting in a somewhat extreme manner.

Fact is, Atheism, whilst not a religion, is the belief that God does not exist. You are free to believe this, and I am free to disagree with you, but this does not mean that I think that because you do not believe in God, that it follows that everything else you may say on any other subject is invalid, that is a ridiculous position to hold because I know it is not true, of you in particular on this forum Wowbanger.

If you would discriminate against Theists for holding a different view from you, wouldn't that make you as bad as the Theists who think, for instance, that Atheists have no morals?
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Originally Posted by Wowbanger TIP:
Historians, particularly Marx, have commonly observed that you can do what you like to the working class but whatever you do don't disappoint the middle class. They have been proven to be volatile, completely unprincipled and susceptible to any wild promise offered them over and over again. All the successful revolutions in history have been products of the outraged middle class. Looking at our own situation we see a huge section of the middle class already radicalized, although atypically they have been radicalized to half a dozen different ideologies and even more bizarrely none at all. There instincts tell them that someones **** needs kicking but as yet no one has identified a suitable weak satisfactory target that they feel comfortable scapegoating.

Where have you been since 9/11? Come in Wowbanger TIP, your time is up. Muslims are the New Communists (who were the New Nazis...).

Don't you know that the way to rid the UK, and Europe, of economic and political strife is to send all the Muslims back to Saudi?

At least, that is the message I'm getting loud and clear.
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Gengis Chris asked me when I thought this downturn/recession/depression would reach the kind of evil situation I have been talking about.

The situation is now so precarious that any one of a range of major events or any combination of smaller ones could trigger a cascading collapse of the entire economic structure of the West. Literally any day, starting today, could see a major bank collapse starting a run on all banks resulting in a rapid, unstoppable and accelerating downward spiral.

However every passing day is more likely than the one before to see this process begin as everyday the economy weakens as losses mount and capital evaporates. Moreover as time passes the individual components of the economy become more corroded and therefore the longer the final decent is put off the faster it will be when it arrives.

So far the government's and financial institutions have executed their "fighting retreat" strategy very well, containing each of the spectacular collapses which have already occurred. The problem is that each of these "holding actions" has drained the declining resources they have available.

Judging by the skill demonstrated so far by the Central Banks and major institutions and assessing the progress of the mounting losses I reckon that they can hold the line for a maximum of about twelve months by which time their resources will be exhausted and the extent of the problems so grave as to be irresistible.

However any serious geo-political event such as a major Iranian conflict or a major spontaneous economic collapse of a major company or bank could accelerate this timetable exponentially.

The significant point is that the point of no return appears to have been passed and that the important thing to take on board is that there is now a probability of some sort of unprecedented economic and social catastrophe taking place in the very near future.
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