Before I start. Thanks for your views they obviously come neither from the MSM or Alex Jones.

Originally Posted by Wowbanger TIP:

However it also seems to me that these were eminantely sensible reasons to blast Iraq. It is a dim refection on the West that our elites can not make the case with any confidence of getting support of the people on this basis rather than with pathetic lies.

If they had quite simply said "Saddom is a nasty piece of work. We think he should be removed" I think public support would have been behind them. The only problem with that is they would have been expected to get in change regime and get the f*** out. From my perspective this obviously was not the overall intention. They wanted control.

Originally Posted by :
Having said that I also believe the "democratic evangelism" also played a significant part. And that if Iraq had become a successful oil state democracy then that would have been a major victory for the West and its values. However clearly this is not going to be the case.

What should be remembered is Iran is a democratic oil nation the trouble is it's had a nasty habit of voting in those that would stand up to America.

Originally Posted by :
As for the American willingness to go to war again. I think that Iraq was a massive risk in that it stood a chance of reawakening American isolationism and pacifism which was barely dozing after Vietnam. I believe that the American people would find it difficult to support another war, particularly in Iran. Given the low opinion most of the American populace hold of their government and their justified suspicion of its motives I think that it would be all but impossible to mobalize them even in the event of another 9/11 or worse.

I think you are bang on it with that one. However Bush, his colonies and the media are still continuing trying to drum up support for a war. Given as you say the suspicion surrounding 9/11 I don't think an attack on the US would even spark the support.

Originally Posted by :
I have a strong suspicion that Iran and other share my analysis, otherwise they would hardly be provoking the Americans quite so enthusiastically in Iraq.

Again I think your right. What I am weary of is how many of these reports of Iran provoking America our true. As we all know the first victim of war is truth. While I think Iran knows America have used up they're resources with this battle they also know America could just nuke them and claim it was a preemptive strike to protect Israel or some thing along those lines. I can see no benefit for Iran to actually provoke a war.
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This is a very pessimistic thread. The assumption seems to be that we are completely dependent upon oil. As the price of oil goes up $150, $200 $300 dollars per barrel, this will act as an economic spur to the introduction of other forms of energy. Why not use more coal? The government are pushing the nuclear option. I don't see why we can't convert the agricultural set aside land into growing sugar beet and other fuels for biodiesel. There is wind power, tidal and sea current power, microgeneration involving wind turbines and water turbines. Solar power, photovoltaics, and hydrogen fuel cell technology. A lot of this already exists as technology and needs to be put in place.

It wouldn't be that much different from how things are now, except that in general it would be cleaner. (perhaps with the exception of coal) It just needs the political and economic will to make the change.

It isn't frightening.
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Originally Posted by Harbinger:
Seriously.

Fuel prices rocketing, China's massive use of petrol pushing up the prices, gas and heating oil expected to rise, electricity to rise by 40% and with it probably food prices.

Public sector pay restraint which will undoubtedly lead to strikes, prisons, dustmen, fire NHS etc.

How long before we are a third world country?

Not long. The BNP have been saying this for years and had they been in power, they had concrete steps to make sure Britain doesn't become a third world country. However the people are too bl0ody stupid to vote for them, and so they deserve all they are going to get, and more. But the children don't deserve it.
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BBC NEWS | Politics | Plea by PM at talks on oil price

Gordon Brown is at it again. Just making it all worse. How are we going to lower fuel price he seems to thinks himself, I know invest £100bn in alternative energy. What Mr.G.Brown doesn't realise is that he needs find this £100bn, I wonder how he's going to get that? ****cough***fuel***cough***tax***cough****
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I see my post has been deleted, It may not be to the level of intellect of your posts but it was a perfectly valid opinion and was of no offense to anyone. Clearly this is not a forum, as forum is a place is where you voice your opinion freely and others comment, not delete. The is not a forum and clearly has very little relation to democracy.
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Originally Posted by Bumdrew:
BBC NEWS | Politics | Plea by PM at talks on oil price

Gordon Brown is at it again. Just making it all worse. How are we going to lower fuel price he seems to thinks himself, I know invest £100bn in alternative energy. What Mr.G.Brown doesn't realise is that he needs find this £100bn, I wonder how he's going to get that? ****cough***fuel***cough***tax***cough****

No, not tax, taking on yet more foreign debt.
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Originally Posted by Earthling:
Well I don't know if everything has reached third-world level yet, but the quality of care in the NHS is on the way and our road surfaces are certainly third world.

Spa Road in my area is very bad, nearly broke my ankle!!!:-)
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Spa Road has always been bad since about 1760. :-)
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how bad are things going to get?

I am kinda hoping for the worst case. total collapse of the uk's and americas regimes, maybe mindless violence in the streets... then a Russia and China combo to invade the world, a mild nuclear winter and then peace, a new 1 world government with a population cap on the 3 billion people that survived the war.

The world is overpopulated, it's being raped of its resources far quicker than they can recover, the only true solution is a population cull.

destructionism, not an ideal ideal, but the only one that can work in the long run. :-)
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I absolutely cannot believe I just read that.

You actually wish to bring death and destruction on your own people. Disgusting.
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