Originally Posted by JTSutherland:
Britain is facing "arguably the worst" economic downturn in 60 years which will be "more profound and long-lasting" than people had expected, Alistair Darling, the chancellor, tells the Guardian today.

In the government's gravest assessment of the economy, which follows a warning from a Bank of England policymaker that 2 million people could be out of work by Christmas, Darling admits he had no idea how serious the credit crunch would become.

His blunt remarks lay bare the unease in the highest ranks of the cabinet that the downturn is making it all but impossible for Gordon Brown to recover momentum after a series of setbacks.

Economy at 60-year low, says Darling. And it will get worse | Politics | The Guardian

No surprise under mad-spending Labour. Under the Willson/Callaghan government Britain had to go begging to the International Monetary Fund for a handout. But the Conservative Party, in retrospect, have also demonstrated that while their record is better its not much better. The Westminster mafia have betrayed Great Britain in every possible way. They have laid open, to far too great an extent, our economy to foreigners and the very greedy banks have, not being content with the British market, caused out people great distress by losing vast sums in speculation in the USA.

Our utility companies, which provide things as fundamental to human life as water, have been sold to foreigners. Our nation's essential infrastructure is being sold from beneath our feet.

Only when these facts finally get home to our electorate at large, only when the electorate really realise how they have been betrayed on just about every imaginable issue, will the tribal vote finally be broken.
[Rep]

Originally Posted by Gregory Lauder-Frost:

Our utility companies, which provide things as fundamental to human life as water, have been sold to foreigners. Our nation's essential infrastructure is being sold from beneath our feet.

Now Gregory, that is one can of spaghetti that I would have thought that you probably least of all around here would have wanted to be opened up and unraveled.

Maybe a can of worms would be more appropriate than spaghetti, since worms better describes some of the big players.
[Rep]

The ownership of British utilities by foreign capital is totally irrelevant, we could expect no less ruthless exploitation by British capital, if such a thing still exists.

The question is not who owns the power stations but how we keep the damned things running on what on?

The terrible truth of the situation is finally beginning to dawn even in the shockingly unimaginative minds Government's apparátchiks like Darling and Charles Bean, deputy head of the Bank of England who recently remarked:

'Household real income is very low. That will make it difficult for households and there are difficult social issues that will arise.'

Deepening economic crisis 'may trigger family breakdown' | Mail Online

This suggests that while their train of collective thought might be chugging along painfully slowly they are at least on the right track. Which will inevitable lead to the unpleasant realization that if the dysfunctional Balkanized fantasy society they have built gets even close to the kind of conditions that pertained in the seventies, much less the thirties, the consequences will be cataclysmic.

Anyone hoping to profit politically by this terrible prospect has failed to understand the implications, unless they are into primitive anarchism.
[Rep]

Originally Posted by Wowbanger TIP:
Anyone hoping to profit politically by this terrible prospect has failed to understand the implications, unless they are into primitive anarchism.

Oh they understand the implications perfectly, which is why they've engineered the crisis to begin with.

As for profiting politically it hardly matters when ou've got a rigged 3 party system.
[Rep]

If you know so much Wowbanger, pehaps you can explain why the customers of EDF, a French government owned company, in France were only charged an extra 5% for their gas supply.
[Rep]

Originally Posted by Little Englander (sour):
If you know so much Wowbanger, pehaps you can explain why the customers of EDF, a French government owned company, in France were only charged an extra 5% for their gas supply.

It was capped under orders from the French Government - who happen to own EDF, or at least a large percentage of it. I believe the limit was set at 2% for gas and 3% for electricity - not the 5% that has been reported.
[Rep]

Originally Posted by Hunter:
It was capped under orders from the French Government - who happen to own EDF, or at least a large percentage of it. I believe the limit was set at 2% for gas and 3% for electricity - not the 5% that has been reported.

Top Marks Hunter, you have done your research.
Pity Wowbanger, to whom the question was posed, has not.
[Rep]

Originally Posted by Little Englander (sour):
If you know so much Wowbanger, pehaps you can explain why the customers of EDF, a French government owned company, in France were only charged an extra 5% for their gas supply.

Perhaps the French government have decided to subsidize the cost of gas? Either that or they have a special secret supply which is still available at mid 2007 prices. Not that it really matters if you pay through bills or taxes the result is the same.

Or perhaps the dastardly French government are fleecing the poor old Brits to subsidize their own population? Of course thats it! It's all a Gallic plot!

Or perhaps there is no energy crisis, it's all a scam by the energy companies?

What surprises me is that everyone sees the current situation through whatever prism they see politics in general. So for some it's a conspiracy by the NWO, others see a EU conspiracy and others a rip off by Big Oil or some combination of the these and others.

Personally I favor the geological/economic explanation. Demand just bounced off the supply limit, ripping great chunks out of the global economy. Now the diminished economy is consuming beneath its previous demand thus creating a supply margin and reducing price. If and when the economy recovers it will hit the same ceiling with the same effects, although compounded by the damage of the first impact. Frightening as that is it's no where near a frightening as the thought that ceiling is going to start lowering as supply contracts.

What impresses me about this theory is that it predicted this was going to happen before it did, rather than the retrospective explanations offered by conspiracy theorists.
[Rep]

Sorry Wowbanger, I took you for a serious poster.
The CEO(u (ha ha)k) of EDF was interviewed today and explained that they have 8m customers in the UK and 22m customers in France.
Their French customers are supplied mainly with electricity generated by nuclear power which is cheaper, so the French customer only has to suffer a 5% increase in price.
The U (ha ha) K customers are supplied with electricity generated through coal and gas which is very expensive, so the U(ha ha)K customer has to pay an extra 22%.
Once again Europe calls The U(ha ha)K "Treasure Island"
Do promise to keep up.
[Rep]

Originally Posted by Little Englander (sour):
Sorry Wowbanger, I took you for a serious poster.
The CEO(u (ha ha)k) of EDF was interviewed today and explained that they have 8m customers in the UK and 22m customers in France.
Their French customers are supplied mainly with electricity generated by nuclear power which is cheaper, so the French customer only has to suffer a 5% increase in price.
The U (ha ha) K customers are supplied with electricity generated through coal and gas which is very expensive, so the U(ha ha)K customer has to pay an extra 22%.
Once again Europe calls The U(ha ha)K "Treasure Island"
Do promise to keep up.

I did consider the implication of the French nuclear industry and of the possibility that their gas bills were so high that 5% would translate into 22% in the UK. Also that the pipeline transmission system from Russia might have an effect or that they had some sort of hedging scheme. Or that the timescale might distort the compassion, i.e. that French prices had gone up/were going up at a different point to that of the UK, which I could not be bothered to research.

However you specified gas prices, not energy or electricity in your question, and therefore nuclear effects had to be discounted. Even if they used less gas because of the prevalence of electricity then that gas would still be as expensive as the UK.

I think that since EDF is a state company then the French government must be shielding the population through subsidy. Because they sure as hell are paying more than 5% more than they were last year for their gas. I given the usual reaction of the French to things they find distasteful you can see why.

Note: Gas generation of electricity would increase electricity bills but have no effect on gas, so in France the price of gas would still be the same as the UK. Unless they raised (nuclear generated) electricity prices to cover the increase in gas, subsidizing one with the other?
[Rep]