Originally Posted by Independence Now!:
The BNP isn't 'fascist'. You do concede the EDP's main and indeed DEFINING issue is the idea of an English Parliament. What would you prefer: an English Parliament or Britain as a whole out of the EU.

I would prefer the latter. The fact is there is little point in creating an English Parliament if Britain doesn't come out of the EU since that is where most legislation originates now. How can you devolve power downwards if you don't have it in the first place?

With an English Parliament, the English can take control of the British Parliament. With control of the British Parliament, the English can take Britain out of the EU following endorsement of that course by a referendum.

There is more than one way of killing the cat than skinning it!

You would do better to direct your criticisms at the Conservative, Labour and Lib Dem parties!


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I think it was a good result for the English Democrats. I do not think they are a one-issue party, because they are not. However, the press thinks so. The Greens were seen as one issue, UKIP have been for a long time, the BNP were seen as "anti-immigration" but are generally promoted as being "extreme" so issues don't count, and the rest are cranks!

Democracy is an uphill struggle.
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Originally Posted by Independence Now!:
Why should English voters support the BNP in preference to the 'We hate all Scots' English Democrats? Simple. At least the BNP has a far tougher policy on immigration and thus ensure that the white English have some sort of future in England!



I suspect many UKIP voters voted for the EDs. If UKIP had stood, the EDs would have been thrashed again as this is what normally happens when UKIP stand and you do. The EDs don't perform well when other 'minor' parties stand so this by-election was a one-off.

Perhaps it was a one off for a Westminster election, but the EDs seem to be making an impression in local elections.

They don’t always get thrashed as they did in Havering recently. But even then UKIP only got 2.6% to the ED’s 1.2%.

In Stevenage in May, UKIP stood in five wards and came last each time; whereas the EDs stood in two wards. In one ward with a vote of 19% they came 3rd out of 4, beating the LDs. In another ward with 13% they came 3rd out of six, beating LD, Green and UKIP’s 2%.

According to the ED Website; In one ward in Doncaster in May, with 1033 votes they came 2nd out of six to the Tories and beat Labour, LD, Green and an independent. In another ward they came 4th out of six, beating Greens and UKIP.

In Essex in one area the EDs came 2nd to the Tories in three wards. In one with 24% they beat UKIP and Green, in another with 27% they beat LD, and in another with 34% they beat Labour’s 6% and LD’s 9%.

Obviously one can always be selective, but some of their results aren't bad.

UKIP had better watch its back.
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Indeed, those results weren't bad but generally I tend to think that UKIP and the EDs are fishing out of the same pool of voters and therefore a lot of the times they cancel each other out.
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Originally Posted by cassie:
With an English Parliament, the English can take control of the British Parliament. With control of the British Parliament, the English can take Britain out of the EU following endorsement of that course by a referendum.

There is more than one way of killing the cat than skinning it!

You would do better to direct your criticisms at the Conservative, Labour and Lib Dem parties!


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The English already have effective control of the British Parliament in the sense that the vast majority of parliamentary seats and hence the electorate is in England. That is why the devolved institutions were created by Labour.


The main aim must be to take the whole of the United Kingdom out of the EU and this must be done first since around 70% of our legislation originates in Brussels. The Scottish Parliament has a fisheries minister yet how much control does this person have in reality when the so-called 'devolved' power he/she has is handed-down from a Westminster that has signed-up to the Common Fisheries Policy of Brussels?
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[quote=Independence Now!;524324

The main aim must be to take the whole of the United Kingdom out of the EU and this must be done first since around 70% of our legislation originates in Brussels. The Scottish Parliament has a fisheries minister yet how much control does this person have in reality when the so-called 'devolved' power he/she has is handed-down from a Westminster that has signed-up to the Common Fisheries Policy of Brussels?[/QUOTE]

The main aim should be to take England out of the UK, and then out of the EU (though independence might also annul EU membership).

The stats favour independence. A lot of new nations have been created in the last 20 years. How many countries have ever left the EU?
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Originally Posted by Independence Now!:
Indeed, those results weren't bad but generally I tend to think that UKIP and the EDs are fishing out of the same pool of voters and therefore a lot of the times they cancel each other out.

Anyone who is perceived as 'nationalist' is fishing out of the same pool of voters.
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Originally Posted by Northumbrian:
The main aim should be to take England out of the UK, and then out of the EU (though independence might also annul EU membership).

The stats favour independence. A lot of new nations have been created in the last 20 years. How many countries have ever left the EU?

Well, you won't be surprised to hear I don't agree with breaking-up the United Kingdom. England would have LESS CHANCE of withdrawal from the EU seeing as it would be economically-weakened by separatism. There is a high probability it would have to stay in the EU. Make no mistake, the objective of the EU is to break-up the United Kingdom. I say we don't give them that pleasure.


I think it is only Greenland that has left the EU. Yes, there are lots of new countries in Europe in particular and it shouldn't come as any surprise that many of them want to join the EU and gain a free lunch whilst throwing-away their new independence.
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Originally Posted by Independence Now!:
Indeed, those results weren't bad but generally I tend to think that UKIP and the EDs are fishing out of the same pool of voters and therefore a lot of the times they cancel each other out.

There are some 38 million voters in England, compared with a piddly 3.9 million in Scotland and even fewer in Wales! It's more than a pool, it's a bl**dy ocean!

There's plenty of room for everyone! Remember 40% [ie approx 15 million] of voters in England abstained from voting during the last two general elections.

It beats me why parties which have much more in common with each other than the Big Three continue to criticise each other instead of them. I suspect it is because some of those causing the friction here are actually from one or more of those parties and deliberately post provocative threads, such as "Is this the end of the ED"?

They also try to insinuate the idea that it is me and a few others who cause this antagonism. You won't find any threads initiated by me attacking UKIP or the FEP or the EDP for that matter, although I freely react to those which are put up!


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Originally Posted by Independence Now!:
The English already have effective control of the British Parliament in the sense that the vast majority of parliamentary seats and hence the electorate is in England. That is why the devolved institutions were created by Labour.

The main aim must be to take the whole of the United Kingdom out of the EU and this must be done first since around 70% of our legislation originates in Brussels. The Scottish Parliament has a fisheries minister yet how much control does this person have in reality when the so-called 'devolved' power he/she has is handed-down from a Westminster that has signed-up to the Common Fisheries Policy of Brussels?

Get real! Too many ethnic English have been conned into thinking that they are British first and last! Neither the Scots nor the Welsh [save those living in England] regard themselves as primarily British. Being British simply doesn't work if the other UK nations don't see themselves as being British, and they don't!

The English do not have effective control of Parliament! It is political parties which have that control . . . have you not noticed? Who controls the political parties? Cabals in which Scots predominate . . . have you not noticed THAT?

The aggregate total membership of the three main Brit parties is less than 0.5 million ie about 1% of the total UK electorate. In theory, it is the members locally who select candidates but, in practice, it is a very few at the centre who choose candidates. Didn't you notice how the selection process in Glasgow East was halted by the Labour Party because the 'selected' candidate had withdrawn? The process could have gone ahead because there were others on the 'shortlist' who had turned up! It didn't because the process is a sham, and another 'preferred' candidate had to be selected [ie appointed] first, before going through the pretence of a selection process! The same thing happened in Crewe when Gwynneth Dunwoody's daughter was conjured up in a vain attempt to retain the seat!

Perhaps this is a suitable point to underline how 'English' the representation in Crewe had been and how 'English' it would be now if Brown & Co had had their way! Even the Labour Campaign Manager there was a Scot! [Can you imagine an English Labour Campaign Manager in say Stirling or Perth?] Even the erstwhile Chairman of the London Labour Party was a Scot . . . can you imagine the converse in Edinburgh or Glasgow? [I refer here to Jim Fitzsimmons, currently an ENGLAND transport Minister!]

There are some thirty Scots occupying England Parliamentary Constituencies but not one English person in any of Scotland's. The Labour Party is a proxy Scottish nationalist party and the Conservative Party headed by Cameron has learned many of its practices and constitutional [or perhaps I should say, unconstitutional] tricks.

There is unlikely to be any real progress until the English wake up to who they are AND realise that many [if not most] of their compatriots have also. Then, there is likely to be a wholesale clear out of many of those in the Commons seen as representing anybody and anything other than us! In that event, I suspect any role the BNP might have will be greatly diminished, if it exists at all!


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