Dr David Evans

g hall,
your ignorance of science or deliberate ignorance is letting you down again. If you read further into the wiki link, (which didn't work for me because you left a bracket off), you might have read this:-

Originally Posted by :
Liquids
Main article: Lakes of Titan

False-color Cassini synthetic-aperture radar mosaic of Titan's north polar region, showing evidence for hydrocarbon seas, lakes and tributary networks. The false blue coloring indicates low radar reflectivity areas, likely caused by bodies of liquid ethane, methane and dissolved nitrogen. Photographs suggest that the large body at lower left, Kraken Mare, has about twice the extent visible here.The possibility that there were seas of liquid methane on Titan were first suggested based on Voyager 1 and 2 data that showed Titan to have a thick atmosphere of approximately the correct temperature and composition to support them, but direct evidence wasn't obtained until 1995 when data from Hubble and other observations had already suggested the existence of liquid methane on Titan, either in disconnected pockets or on the scale of satellite-wide oceans, similar to water on Earth.[40]

The Cassini mission affirmed the former hypothesis, although not immediately. When the probe arrived in the Saturnian system in 2004, it was hoped that hydrocarbon lakes or oceans might be detectable by reflected sunlight from the surface of any liquid bodies, but no specular reflections were initially observed.[41] At Titan's south pole, an enigmatic dark feature named Ontario Lacus was the first suspected lake identified, possibly created by clouds that are observed to cluster in the area.[42] A possible shoreline was also identified at the pole via radar imagery.[43] Following a flyby on July 22, 2006, in which the Cassini spacecraft's radar imaged the northern latitudes (which are currently in winter), a number of large, smooth (and thus dark to radar) patches were seen dotting the surface near the pole.[44] Based on the observations, scientists announced "definitive evidence of lakes filled with methane on Saturn's moon Titan" in January 2007.[7][45] The Cassini–Huygens team concluded that the imaged features are almost certainly the long-sought hydrocarbon lakes, the first stable bodies of surface liquid found off Earth. Some appear to have channels associated with liquid and lie in topographical depressions.[7]

Methane dear fellow, Methane !!!! Possibly some Ethane but have to watch Burn Up now)

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Methane is not a hydrocarbon then ?

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Methane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit] Sources of methane

[edit] Natural gas fields
The major source of methane is extraction from geological deposits known as natural gas fields. It is associated with other hydrocarbon fuels and sometimes accompanied by helium and nitrogen. The gas at shallow levels (low pressure) is formed by anaerobic decay of organic matter and reworked methane from deep under the Earth's surface. In general, sediments buried deeper and at higher temperatures than those which give oil generate natural gas. Methane is also produced in considerable quantities from the decaying organic wastes of solid waste landfills.

[edit] Alternative sources
Apart from gas fields an alternative method of obtaining methane is via biogas generated by the fermentation of organic matter including manure, wastewater sludge, municipal solid waste (including landfills), or any other biodegradable feedstock, under anaerobic conditions. Methane hydrates/clathrates (icelike combinations of methane and water on the sea floor, found in vast quantities) are a potential future source of methane. Cattle belch methane accounts for 16% of the world's annual methane emissions to the atmosphere. [4] The livestock sector in general (primarily cattle, chickens, and pigs) produces 37% of all human-induced methane".[5] However animals "that put their energies into making gas are less efficient at producing milk and meat". Early research has found a number of medical treatments and dietary adjustments that help limit the production of methane in ruminants.[6] [7] [8]

Industrially, methane can be created from common atmospheric gases and hydrogen (produced, for example, by electrolysis) through chemical reactions such as the Sabatier process, Fischer-Tropsch process. Coal bed methane extraction is a method for extracting methane from a coal deposit, while enhanced coal bed methane recovery is a method of recovering methane from an unminable coal seam.

A recent scientific experiment has also yielded results pointing to one species of plant[9] producing trace methane.[10].

Methane CH4.

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Methane - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
'Methane has been detected or is believed to exist in several locations of the solar system. It is believed to have been created by abiotic processes, with the possible exception of Mars [and Titan, according to the Titan entry].'

Titan (moon) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
'Energy from the Sun should have converted all traces of methane in Titan's atmosphere into hydrocarbons within 50 million years; a relatively short time compared to the age of the Solar System. This suggests that methane must be somehow replenished by a reservoir on or within Titan itself. That Titan's atmosphere contains over a thousand times more methane than carbon monoxide would appear to rule out significant contributions from cometary impacts, since comets are composed of more carbon monoxide than methane. That Titan might have accreted an atmosphere from the early Saturnian nebula at the time of formation also seems unlikely; in such a case, it ought to have atmospheric abundances similar to the solar nebula, including hydrogen and neon.[30] Many astronomers have suggested that the ultimate origin for the methane in Titan's atmosphere is from within Titan itself, released via eruptions from cryovolcanoes.[31] A possible biological origin for the methane has not been discounted (see below).[10]'

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Originally Posted by g hall:
Methane is not a hydrocarbon then ?

A simple yes or no will suffice

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My replies to this thread seem jinxed. I cut my post, #12, short because I wanted to see ‘Burn Up’ and didn’t develop my argument further. I constructed and thought I had posted a long reply to g hall’s subsequent post #13 yesterday but obviously it ain’t there. So, I don’t know what’s happening. One more try:-
G hall wrote:-

Originally Posted by :
Methane is not a hydrocarbon then ?

Of course it is !!! It is the simplest possible hydrocarbon.

However, I wanted to make the point that by posting the Titan link in this thread you were trying to imply, (because there is supposedly no life on Titan) that the presence of Methane (there & hydrocarbon ‘lakes’) is evidence of the ‘High Pressur’ synthesis method favoured by you in posts #4 et al.

Your implication suffers from many critical weaknesses. For example, there is no evidence of ‘Carbonate’ rocks on Titan or is there any significant amount of Iron.
Why ?, well probably due to the mechanism of how the solar system was formed.

Obviously this is a debateable issue but it is supposed to have condensed from a galactic cloud of gases & dust made up of virtually every known element. But an important part of that process was thought to be ‘fractionation’ of the components, i.e. the heavy & metallic elements were concentrated in the first 4 planets whereas the remaining planets were mainly composed of gases in their ‘icy’ form. Subsequently, after they had cooled sufficiently, comet bombardments gave the inner planets gases including water.
Formation and evolution of the Solar System - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, almost certainly, the Methane present on Titan is a residue of condensate of its’ initial formation..

Here is a link which you may find interesting :-
Extraterrestrial atmospheres - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
part of Titan extract:-

Originally Posted by :
Titan has by far the densest atmosphere of any moon. The Titanian atmosphere is in fact denser than Earth's, with a surface pressure of 147 kPa, one and a half times that of the Earth. The atmosphere is 98.4% nitrogen, with the remaining 1.6% composed of methane and trace amounts of other gases such as hydrocarbons (including ethane, diacetylene, methylacetylene, cyanoacetylene, acetylene, propane), argon, carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, cyanogen, hydrogen cyanide and helium. The hydrocarbons are thought to form in Titan's upper atmosphere in reactions resulting from the breakup of methane by the Sun's ultraviolet light, producing a thick orange smog. Titan has no magnetic field and sometimes orbits outside Saturn's magnetosphere, directly exposing it to the solar wind. This may ionize and carry away some molecules from the top of the atmosphere.

You may wish to read the articles about the other ‘gas giants’ which also have methane in their atmospheres.

Finally, why lakes ? presumably because the surface temperatures on those moons & planets are below the boiling points of Methane and other hydrocarbons and CO2 & possibly even Nitrogen.

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