A question from a curious American

Originally Posted by jjohnson0000:
I don't know how I ended up here, but I was reading random things online.

Anyway, a question cropped up in my mind and I thought I would ask.

For lack of a better way to word this I'll just ask.. How do most people from the UK feel about the EU slowly gaining control over your country?

Does that bother a lot of you? I mean, I think if I was born in and lived in the UK, that it would bother the hell out of me if a foreign institution was slowly gaining control over the legislature of my country, starting to help write its laws and excersize it's own will over yours.. it almost seems like something along the lines of a slow but deliberate nonmilitary takeover of nations.

Maybe that's not quite what's happening, but it seems that way.

Doesn't that kind of feel like a betrayal to your country in some ways?

I'm mostly curious I guess. Perhaps it's nothing like that, but I know I would certainly not be happy with someone from say Mexico being able to start determining what they want for my Country. (Not that I have a problem with Mexicans, I love a good Burrito), but you get the idea..

Ah well, thanks.

I'm a Cornishmen and highland Scot. I have enough trouble with most power being lodged in Westminister and Holyrood before even contemplating the EU.

But I'm not going to say my intense anti-EU feeling is the general feeling, alot of Brits don't like it much but only a minority are commited anti-EU types and a minority are commited supporters of it and even avowed EU federalists.

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I think it is happening to you in America.

Patrick J. Buchanan :: Townhall.com :: The NAFTA super highway

Press Kit ::: Patrick J. Buchanan - Official Website

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Originally Posted by jjohnson0000:
Then you should be spending your time opposing it, not seemingly defending it (which is what it sounds like you were doing)

It's only the start now, you have to think where it will be 20 years from now.

And comparing the formation of a "European Union" to the way the US formed, it's not a very good comparison.

The US wanted independance because of taxation without representation (a big factor), they didn't want a far away government they couldnt elect making their laws. What if the original colonies started off by completely governing themselves, do you think it would be a good idea for them to be like "you know, we should really get together with mainland England and make some treaties so they can write govern and make more of our laws over there instead of here by us"

Being for the formation of the EU would be the complete opposite. Would be like saying "I'd like a far away government to be more in charge, not less, with less representation"

You mentioned the patriot act earlier. I despise that act, and it's a slow loss of our civil liberties here. But it's already in, however if I didn't act or even think about it at all and even partially defend it (even though I don't like it), if people didn't voice their disgust for it, it would just get worse, over the years, until eventually, all those rights would be gone. I oould say "sure it hasn't really done much so far", but if I were to remain blind to those things, eventually more and more of those type of "acts" (or treaties?) would get passed until I one day woke up to realize I have no freedoms left.

Anyway, I originally just wanted to see how people felt about it but felt the need to reply to responses.

Mr Johnson, you are treating the issue of the EU like a zero sum, all or nothing gig. As far as I understand it, it is another level of governance, just like your federal government.

It is not a dictatorship of any sort, any more than the UN is a form of world government. The primary aim of the EU is economic, and in order for it to work, there have to be universally recognised standards.

Like Westcountryman, I don't really like the idea from a nationalist point of view, but like the UN, giving up a tiny amount of sovereignty for the good of the larger European community, is probably not totally a bad thing.

I say this with respect, but maybe you are looking at it from a typically American point of view? Most Americans I have read seem to think that if something is not like what happens in the USA, it's not as good.

We have some pretty cool stuff on this side of the pond too, you know! :-)

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Well I'm not really sure how I could be looking at it from an "American" point of view, I didn't realize there was such a thing, point of views generally have Sovereignty ( as far as I know heh)

Though I am sure one could make assumptions about about someones point of view with the assumption that it's his countries point of view, and that assumption being that that persons assumption is what the first person assumption of that persons assumptions are, but then wouldn't we all just be making assumptions about fictional groups of people who supposedly make assumptions about fictional groups of people who supposedly make assumptions?

Then we wouldn't really be making much sense would we :-)

Though I should edit and say I know what you are trying to say, but, as far as points of view on the current subject, lumping my opinions into a category like that isn't really, I don't know the word.. but, you get the idea.

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Originally Posted by jjohnson0000:
Well I'm not really sure how I could be looking at it from an "American" point of view, I didn't realize there was such a thing, point of views generally have Sovereignty ( as far as I know heh)

Well I think that there are societal influences on points of view, but I wasn't trying to typecast you. Sorry if it came across that way.

Originally Posted by jjohnson0000:
Though I am sure one could make assumptions about about someones point of view with the assumption that it's his countries point of view, and that assumption being that that persons assumption is what the first person assumption of that persons assumptions are, but then wouldn't we all just be making assumptions about fictional groups of people who supposedly make assumptions about fictional groups of people who supposedly make assumptions?

Then we wouldn't really be making much sense would we :-)

Ummm ... what? :-)

Originally Posted by jjohnson0000:
Though I should edit and say I know what you are trying to say, but, as far as points of view on the current subject, lumping my opinions into a category like that isn't really, I don't know the word.. but, you get the idea.

No it's not really fair, cos I don't know you - so I apologise. I was just asking if that was a possibility, cos I have noticed that a lot of Americans don't seem to like anything to do with the UN, and see it as a loss of sovereignty to participate in things that are of purely international benefit.

But I had no right make such assumptions about you - I'm sorry. Friends? :-)

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Heh its ok man :-)

It just frustrates me that people like to typecast each other all the time. Everyone is guilty of it. People typecast Americans, or Europeans, and in the end they are all just being hyppocritical because most the time people are typecasting people saying they typecast people.

It's all good though I wasn't mad at you or anything :-)

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I've scanned this topic and can not believe that the reply our American cousin has had, who started this thread, is so vague.
AROUND 65% (AND RISING) OF THE UK WANT OUT OF THE EU. YOU ARE RIGHT, JUST LIKE YOU THOUGHT, MOST OF THE UK HATE BEING GOVERNED FROM BRUSSELS,:-)

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I'd say it is even higher, closer to 80% looking at pretty much every poll on the EU.
95% of Express readers want out, 80% wanted a Lisbon Treaty referendum (which I imagine most of them was against it - cannot see why anyone in favour of it would want a referendum when they can just get it pushed through with no problems)
Pretty much anybody I speak to regarding the EU seem against what is happening, and I think if there was an IN/OUT referendum tomorrow we would be out of the EU by the end of the year.

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Originally Posted by Earthling:
I'd say it is even higher, closer to 80% looking at pretty much every poll on the EU.
95% of Express readers want out, 80% wanted a Lisbon Treaty referendum (which I imagine most of them was against it - cannot see why anyone in favour of it would want a referendum when they can just get it pushed through with no problems)
Pretty much anybody I speak to regarding the EU seem against what is happening, and I think if there was an IN/OUT referendum tomorrow we would be out of the EU by the end of the year.

Interesting, and yet probably incorrect analysis, especially given conflicting information such as this:

"A majority of people wanted the UK to go through the EU route, with 52 per cent of users picking this option. Twenty-four per cent believed Britain should go through the UN and 14 per cent wanted Britain to work in tandem with the United States. "

http://www.politics.co.uk/news/opinion-former-index/foreign-policy/uk-public-split-on-russian-conflict-politics-co-uk-poll-reveals-$1237487.htm

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