I don't know how I ended up here, but I was reading random things online.

Anyway, a question cropped up in my mind and I thought I would ask.

For lack of a better way to word this I'll just ask.. How do most people from the UK feel about the EU slowly gaining control over your country?

Does that bother a lot of you? I mean, I think if I was born in and lived in the UK, that it would bother the hell out of me if a foreign institution was slowly gaining control over the legislature of my country, starting to help write its laws and excersize it's own will over yours.. it almost seems like something along the lines of a slow but deliberate nonmilitary takeover of nations.

Maybe that's not quite what's happening, but it seems that way.

Doesn't that kind of feel like a betrayal to your country in some ways?

I'm mostly curious I guess. Perhaps it's nothing like that, but I know I would certainly not be happy with someone from say Mexico being able to start determining what they want for my Country. (Not that I have a problem with Mexicans, I love a good Burrito), but you get the idea..

Ah well, thanks.
[Rep]

The takeover's already happened: most laws are initiated by the Brusskva (Brussels) régime. The continent is no longer foreign territory - language excepted. The Lisbon treaty is the cherry atop the cake (IMO).

If the people there really care and want to end this evil régime they may need to overthrow it by force. Or just move to Switzerland or something. :-)
[Rep]

In short,the EU is a Communist European Union,it is more than 90% complete and on line to complete its mission within less than two years.

With regard to the USA,Mexico and Canada,(NAU),you must resist it from the very start,that means from right now because it has actually already started in the USA.

We in the UK will be very fortunate if we manage to block the Communist European Union from locking us all down in the very near future.

When all this finally dawns on our people we will see an even bigger exodus from here,I believe that the CEU desire such to happen,thats the way to rid itself of the malcontentious without them lifting a finger.
[Rep]

I have to admit, I've just been reading up on it all, and it's kind of shocking (honestly)

It's almost like completely throwing democracy out the window, (from what I gather so far).

And not sure if you mean people here or referring to someone else but if you mean here. Maybe if our president wasn't such a moron he'd be trying to do something about it but that's probably giving him too much credit heh. I'd wager most people that aren't involved know very little about what seems to be going on. (and I try to keep up on things), kind of a lot of stuff going on around the world at the moment it seems this whole thing kinda just slipped under the radar for most people I think (maybe everyone's just too busy bitching about high gas prices)

I always knew France and Germany and some of them had there little dealings going on, which I never was that concerned with, but I never really thought the UK was really much a part in all of that.

Well, it's not all a done deal yet, so fight the good fight.

There's new elections over here in November and who knows what that could bring (for any of the bad that has come out of here from our last president, there still is potential for a lot of good in near future)
[Rep]

2 things:

1) What's Communist about the EU? Seriously. I have never understood this 'argument'.

2) Not everything that comes out of the EU is bad, some of the legislation that comes out of Brussels is superior to the British legislation it replaces - for example, the Unfair Commercial Practices Directive (Consumer Protection Regulations in the UK).
[Rep]

WCM, you are probably aware of the Nazi origins of the current EU. If you are unaware then I must recommend reading Europe's Full Circle by Rodney Atkinson. But I guess I'm singing to the choir here. I know a 'European Union' of some sort was mooted in the 1920s, but did not take off until 1957 with the Treaty of Rome. As Atkinson explains, the similarities between Adolf Hitler's economic plans for a militarily conquered and subject Europe (1942 Europapaische Wirtschaft Gemeingeshaft - (and I know I've mis-spelt that)) and the economic plans of the 'Common Market' are way too similar to be coincidence.

The trouble with this 'argument' is that most people simply don't believe it, and if you try to explain it to people they are either downright shocked or downright disbelieving. It is harping on about this sort of thing which, whilst it may be factually correct, makes Eurosceptics look like swivel eyed loonies and hands ammo to the europhiles.

The same thing applies if you call the EU Communist. I have no doubt that many of the EU civil servants are very Marxist/Socialist in their political leanings, and no doubt a percentage were or actually still are communists (I give you Prodi). But again harping on about this only alienates the public and furthers the impression that all eurosceptics are swivel eyed frothy lipped xenophobic wierdos.

But as our new American friend JJohnson000 points out, (welcome to the forum mate!) and all we here know, the EU is taking over our democracy, and has already done so to the extent that about 80% of our laws originate in Brussels.

This, I wager, is what the average apathetic punter in the street does not know, and if they did they would probably be shocked. But then again, they might not be, after all, if they've got their bread and circuses, or their beer and Eastenders, why should they care.

Whether the legislation comming out of Brussels is either better or worse than legislation from Westminster is IMO missing the point by a country mile. If the UK government brings out unpopular legislation, and I'm thinking Poll Tax here, we can kick up a fuss and even kick the bums out of office if sufficient numbers of people are sufficiently excised about it. Please explain how I can kick Peter Mandelson or any EU commissioner out of office should I so desire?
[Rep]

Originally Posted by Zak64:
WCM, you are probably aware of the Nazi origins of the current EU. If you are unaware then I must recommend reading Europe's Full Circle by Rodney Atkinson. But I guess I'm singing to the choir here. I know a 'European Union' of some sort was mooted in the 1920s, but did not take off until 1957 with the Treaty of Rome. As Atkinson explains, the similarities between Adolf Hitler's economic plans for a militarily conquered and subject Europe (1942 Europapaische Wirtschaft Gemeingeshaft - (and I know I've mis-spelt that)) and the economic plans of the 'Common Market' are way too similar to be coincidence.

The trouble with this 'argument' is that most people simply don't believe it, and if you try to explain it to people they are either downright shocked or downright disbelieving. It is harping on about this sort of thing which, whilst it may be factually correct, makes Eurosceptics look like swivel eyed loonies and hands ammo to the europhiles.

I'm not really clued up on this "EU is similar to Nazi Europe" stuff, so I can't really comment here.

Originally Posted by Zak64:
The same thing applies if you call the EU Communist. I have no doubt that many of the EU civil servants are very Marxist/Socialist in their political leanings, and no doubt a percentage were or actually still are communists (I give you Prodi).

Yes, but then so are many members of the Labour Party. Not many call them 'Communist'.

Originally Posted by Zak64:
But as our new American friend JJohnson000 points out, (welcome to the forum mate!) and all we here know, the EU is taking over our democracy, and has already done so to the extent that about 80% of our laws originate in Brussels.

Sure, now that I can accept and is the reality. Of course whether this is a good thing or not depends on what side of the fence you sit on. For Eurosceptics, this is obviously a bad thing.

Originally Posted by Zak64:
This, I wager, is what the average apathetic punter in the street does not know, and if they did they would probably be shocked. But then again, they might not be, after all, if they've got their bread and circuses, or their beer and Eastenders, why should they care.

Precisely, I'm not sure the public can be really arsed one way or the other (unless the Sun tells them to care...).

Originally Posted by Zak64:
Whether the legislation comming out of Brussels is either better or worse than legislation from Westminster is IMO missing the point by a country mile.

Sure, but opposing all EU legislation just for the sake of it is the wrong line to take, in my humble opinion -"Look how evil the EU is! Look at the brilliant legislation they're bringing in that will make life better!" :-)

Originally Posted by Zak64:
If the UK government brings out unpopular legislation, and I'm thinking Poll Tax here, we can kick up a fuss and even kick the bums out of office if sufficient numbers of people are sufficiently excised about it. Please explain how I can kick Peter Mandelson or any EU commissioner out of office should I so desire?

Ah, but here's the problem. If the EU did go wholly democratic (ie. fully elected officials, proper role of the Parliament etc) isn't it at that point that the thing really does become a superstate, and thus the EU can't win either way? (ie. Undemocratic vs. LOOK, IT'S BECOMING ITS OWN STATE!!! OMG OMG OMG!!).

You could very easily have a situation similar to the USA - where you elect a President and he appoints his cabinet. You could thus then 'boot them out on their ****'. Of course the rest of Europe would need to be angry at them too...
[Rep]

It’s very similar to when the Territories gained statehood ad then incorporation into the United States of America.

We’re creating the United States of Europe, and although I do regret the loss of our identity as a nation I do accept that in todays world and in our position in the world it’s by far the least worst option.
[Rep]

Well, I won't go into it further but wow. I would never give up my nationhood so that others somewhere else can have more power.

And when the people in power (nothing like in comparison to Bush's "Cabinet", not sure how you could even try to make that comparison) are there representing "you" who you never had a chance to vote there,and not even from your own country, you've lost a huge part of what it means to be democratic.

People call it the United States of Europe, but in practice it won't be anything like a "United States". I am from Minnesota, but I still consider people in New York or California etc.. to be Americans, and the people in Washington are still subject to my vote (even though they have more power than many of the elected officials in Minnesota), and they certainly aren't Germans or French heh.

Lastly the EU will really be run by the few more powerful states, and the rest will be bullied (see Ireland) until the more powerful ones get what they want.

And I'm not sure what people think the "benefit" of a centrally run non democratic state will be, when it comes down to your everyday life, your civil liberties etc.. , you will see a definite decline in quality of life, but maybe slightly more power and money for the unelected officals in power (that certainly won't help "you" at all, OR your country)
[Rep]

Originally Posted by The Bear:
It’s very similar to when the Territories gained statehood and then incorporation into the United States of America.

Ah, but wasn't there the little matter of the American Civil War from 1861 - 1865. A lot of the Southern States didn't want to be incorporated into the USA, and fought to prevent that. At the end of that conflict one in six Americans lay dead. The slavery issue was a smokescreen, IMO. What the US Civil War was all about was federalism.

So, no, it's not at all similar to what happened in the USA, the countries of Europe were precisely that, countries, not former colonial territories that found statehood after making the horrendous mistake of booting us Brits out. :-)

Originally Posted by :
We’re creating the United States of Europe, and although I do regret the loss of our identity as a nation I do accept that in todays world and in our position in the world it’s by far the least worst option.

Hang on a minute! Who is this we you refer to Kimosabe? I sure as hell never voted to be in anything called a United States of Europe, nor anything like it. And neither did any of my friends or family, nor any British voter. Ever.

I too regret the loss of identity, as indeed do many across the EU, who now sense, correctly that the Brussels monster is now well out of control, and is an elitist project for the benefit of political elites. In short, we have a politician's Europe, not a peoples Europe. The Germans, Dutch and now the French regret the loss of their sovereign currencies to the misconcieved b0stard son of the Deutschmark called the Euro. And if we are creating a USE the following evidence would suggest that perhaps not all of the demos of Europe agrees with you and the creation of a USE:

1) Norway rejects membership in a popular referendum in 1973.
2) Denmark rejected the Maastrict Treaty in a popular referendum: but were bullied into a second referendum to give the "correct" result. Very "democratic" that! :-)
3) Denmark also rejected membership of the Euro in September 2000.
4) Sweden rejected joining the Euro in 2003.
5) The Irish reject the Nice Treaty in a popular referendum; but were bullied into a second referendum to give the "correct" result. :-)
6) In May 2005 France rejects the EU Constitution in a popular referendum.
7) Holland follows France's example a few days later.
8) The perenially ungrateful Irish have the temerity to reject the Lisbon Treaty (AKA EU Constitution in disguise). We await further developments.

And as for "Our position in the world" it seems to me that dozens of countries in the world seem to get along perfectly OK without being ruled by an unelected unaccountable bunch of crooks in Brussels.
[Rep]