Agreement on a written form of Cornish

Originally Posted by Westcountryman:
What about the Isles of Scilly? If Cornwall is granted autonomy then they'll want to be separated from Cornwall.

I'm curious to know if BonnieDundee would support such a thing, or if he believes they are possessions of Cornwall.

It's a slippery slope - if you give Cornwall autonomy then you're going to get every other County in the UK wanting the same thing. This is why I would favour granting greater powers to County Councils rather than new bodies - otherwise you're risking breaking up England.

Well I don't see that as a slippery slope but a bonus. And yes the Isles of Scilly can do what their people want them to do.

But Cornwall is not just another county however. It might be argued it is not quite Wales or Scotland in seperateness but as 22ANDUK, another Cornishmen, noted it is not like Dorset or Devon or Yorkshire either. It is more like the Isle of Man or Channel Islands.

Not of course that I don't want the counties to have autonomy if they want it but simply that Cornwall is something beyond a county even if it is not quite what Wales and Scotland are.

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Originally Posted by cassie:

We've yet to discover who these 'Cornish' individuals are and what makes them so special that they should have favourable treatment over and above English people living elsewhere in England. One might just as well say that Yorkshire should have autonomy etc etc.

The people desire it.

Originally Posted by :
Enemies of England remaining a nation, an entity, in its own right are always popping up and making such unwanted suggestions. Enemies of self determination in England would continue to deny the English any opportunity to determine such issues themselves.

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And blind English/British nationalists are always using emotionalism and abstractions to defend their attacks on democracy when it comes to Cornwall.

Cornwall is not just another county but aside from that it the will of the people that matters not whether some outsiders view of what makes England glorious, which he of course relies on for his own sense of worth, is that it is as large and populous as possible.

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Free England support the strengthening of the powers of county councils.

Beyond that, what else does Cornwall want? If the people of Cornwall want more than other counties of England, then they can pay for it, it's as simple as that. I suspect some of these Cornish "nationalists" want an autonomous Cornwall inside the GB/NI but to have funding similar to the Barnett formula. Sorry, it's not going to happen. The English taxpayer is fed up of subsidising all and sundry while they enjoy self-government. The sad fact is, all of these so-called "nations of GB/NI " want self-government without English interference yet want the English to pay for it! Look at it in business terms. If an investor puts a lot cash into a business, they expect to be able to have representation in the boardroom to see how their investment is used. In terms of GB/NI politics, the investor is expected to put in a lot of cash with NO representation and no say over how the money is spent.

Never mind self-government for these minorities, what about English self-determination? The people of England have yet to be asked what THEY want.

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You make some very good points as usual Richard.

Reverting to the subject of this thread, it amazes me how much so many take the English language for granted and tolerate it being abused in ways that others - such as the French - do not like for their own languages. [As far as I am aware, we have no equivalent of L'Académie Francaise!]

Somehow it is smart, cool to have bastardised forms just to be hip! OK, young West Indians and asians do it - especially at school age - but there's always hope that they'll mature and grow out of it.

The plea is always "but it's part of our culture"! Fine, but it ain't part of English culture so why expect us to fund the dilution of OUR culture?

The bottom line is: no one is stopping anyone from learning Cornish - or Martian for that matter. However, English [and Old Englisc, even though I am ignorant of its usage] is part of MY heritage, MY culture, and I reject the sanctimonious attitude implicit in arguing that the English should always be called upon to fund the demise of their own identity by picking up the cost of teaching British minority languages.

I go further: I advocate the end of the widespread and persistent practice of translating English in England into non-English for the benefit of those who do not communicate in English, have no inclination to do so, and yet wish to remain in England. They - including the proponents of Cornish (and Welsh, Scotch, Scottish Gaelic, Irish Gaelic et al) - seek to place themselves above the English, and up with this I will not put!

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Originally Posted by cassie:
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You make some very good points as usual Richard.

Reverting to the subject of this thread, it amazes me how much so many take the English language for granted and tolerate it being abused in ways that others - such as the French - do not like for their own languages. [As far as I am aware, we have no equivalent of L'Académie Francaise!]

Somehow it is smart, cool to have bastardised forms just to be hip! OK, young West Indians and asians do it - especially at school age - but there's always hope that they'll mature and grow out of it.

The plea is always "but it's part of our culture"! Fine, but it ain't part of English culture so why expect us to fund the dilution of OUR culture?

The bottom line is: no one is stopping anyone from learning Cornish - or Martian for that matter. However, English [and Old Englisc, even though I am ignorant of its usage] is part of MY heritage, MY culture, and I reject the sanctimonious attitude implicit in arguing that the English should always be called upon to fund the demise of their own identity by picking up the cost of teaching British minority languages.

I go further: I advocate the end of the widespread and persistent practice of translating English in England into non-English for the benefit of those who do not communicate in English, have no inclination to do so, and yet wish to remain in England. They - including the proponents of Cornish (and Welsh, Scotch, Scottish Gaelic, Irish Gaelic et al) - seek to place themselves above the English, and up with this I will not put!

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That makes no sense it is just more strange ranting from you and seems to show the supremicist nature of your nationalism as these languages are being supported where it is their heritage not part old English's. If you feel that this is somehow encroaching on your heritage then you are little more than an aggressive and authoritarian English supremacist.

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Originally Posted by Richard the Lionheart:
Free England support the strengthening of the powers of county councils.

Beyond that, what else does Cornwall want? If the people of Cornwall want more than other counties of England, then they can pay for it, it's as simple as that. I suspect some of these Cornish "nationalists" want an autonomous Cornwall inside the GB/NI but to have funding similar to the Barnett formula. Sorry, it's not going to happen. The English taxpayer is fed up of subsidising all and sundry while they enjoy self-government. The sad fact is, all of these so-called "nations of GB/NI " want self-government without English interference yet want the English to pay for it! Look at it in business terms. If an investor puts a lot cash into a business, they expect to be able to have representation in the boardroom to see how their investment is used. In terms of GB/NI politics, the investor is expected to put in a lot of cash with NO representation and no say over how the money is spent.

Never mind self-government for these minorities, what about English self-determination? The people of England have yet to be asked what THEY want.

Cornwall is not just another county even if it is not quite like Wales or Scotland, even constitutionally.

But anyway I accept what you say except I get the feeling you are hostile to Cornish seperateness, which is unfortunate.

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There was a blog I posted up here a while ago which discussed the issues of England/Cornwall and the proposed solution seemed pretty sensible to me as a starting place:

Englisc Fyrd: Vision of a post British England and it's counties

I'm all for counties being given mroe power and if Cornwall wants to convert it's county council to a Stannary parliament then why not.
I also support the re-instatement of Middlesex for example.

Ea of dune

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Originally Posted by BonnieDundee:
Cornwall is not just another county even if it is not quite like Wales or Scotland, even constitutionally.

But anyway I accept what you say except I get the feeling you are hostile to Cornish seperateness, which is unfortunate.

I'm not opposed to Cornish seperateness, quite the opposite. I support the rights of any nation to have self-government. What I object to is having to pay for it. If the people of Cornwall want to go it alone, fine, but it must be understood that they must pay their own way in the world, no Barnett type handouts, and they should pay for any services given to them by their neighbours, in addition to servicing the national debt pro-rata. That's fair isn't it?

The way I see it, is in a newly created English state, our traditional counties would be given extra powers to run their own affairs, and if Cornwall wanted to call its council a stannary, then that's not a problem. However, no single council should have more powers than another.

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