Firstly, cassie, speak for yourself only at all times and stop presuming you know where other people have been. You don't. Your dislike of me and your negative attitude toward me has ever been your priority and why you have it and why you do it is beyond all reason. As you do it to a great many others as well I have to presume you have a little kink about some folk. :-)

West Countryman, I wasn't referring to you specifically, but to the worrying increase in new age libertarians who are ruining this philosophy for many of us. Quite a number of people harbour libertarian ideals no matter where they have located their personal political philosophies on the continuum. But it's great to know you aren't one of the band of fascist phobes. :-)
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Originally Posted by Frith:
Firstly, cassie, speak for yourself only at all times and stop presuming you know where other people have been. You don't. Your dislike of me and your negative attitude toward me has ever been your priority and why you have it and why you do it is beyond all reason. As you do it to a great many others as well I have to presume you have a little kink about some folk. :-)

West Countryman, I wasn't referring to you specifically, but to the worrying increase in new age libertarians who are ruining this philosophy for many of us. Quite a number of people harbour libertarian ideals no matter where they have located their personal political philosophies on the continuum. But it's great to know you aren't one of the band of fascist phobes. :-)

See what I mean West Countryman?

Where is the Council of the Isles in all this generalised verbiage?

Numerous words to say nowt of practical value. It's a gift!

:-) :-)

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Originally Posted by cassie:
See what I mean West Countryman?

Where is the Council of the Isles in all this generalised verbiage?

Numerous words to say nowt of practical value. It's a gift!

:-) :-)

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As this is the FEP forum and you're not a member of the Free England Party but are here to antagonise and degrade their supporters, why don't you go and sit on a spike?
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I am all for pushing governance down to more local levels. I could not care one jot whether the Scots, or for that matter people in Yorkshire, Isle of Man, etc, choose to make different decisions.

It is good to push power downwards because it increases democratic representation of individuals and provides extra flexibility for local needs, where a large political unit necessarily requires conformity.

There would perhaps be issues caused by the breaking up of the market - i.e. if the regions are able to make their own regulations etc then business would be made a little harder, but that is fairly negligable compared to the increase in freedom and democracy.

It is certainly prefereable to any further weakening of democracy by pushing powers upwards to a supra-national level. The key is that the autonomous/semi-autonomous countries/administrations are represented with equal weight in any united council and cannot be overruled - i.e. inter-natioanl and not supra-national. Otherwise democracy fails.
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Originally Posted by harryaldridge:
I am all for pushing governance down to more local levels. I could not care one jot whether the Scots, or for that matter people in Yorkshire, Isle of Man, etc, choose to make different decisions.

It is good to push power downwards because it increases democratic representation of individuals and provides extra flexibility for local needs, where a large political unit necessarily requires conformity.

There would perhaps be issues caused by the breaking up of the market - i.e. if the regions are able to make their own regulations etc then business would be made a little harder, but that is fairly negligible compared to the increase in freedom and democracy.

It is certainly preferable to any further weakening of democracy by pushing powers upwards to a supra-national level. The key is that the autonomous/semi-autonomous countries/administrations are represented with equal weight in any united council and cannot be overruled - i.e. inter-national and not supra-national. Otherwise democracy fails.

Very few here would disagree, but the questions are: (1) what is to be the framework for such local government; and (2) how is it to be determined?

The voters in both Scotland and Wales were afforded opportunity to record as nations how they wanted to be governed, only England was excluded from such treatment.

You might find Frank Field's lecture here interesting: The Cross of StGeorge blog

Much of what Frank says applies to the Labour Government is also relevant to the Conservatives and UKIP!

It's all very well 'elective dictatorships' ignoring their electors, but there comes a time when those electors remove them from office and deny office to others who appear equally unrepresentative of what voters really want [eg by proposing inferior, hotchpotch parliamentary arrangements for England]!




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Originally Posted by Northumbrian:
Should the United Kingdom break up into new nation states, I favour the retention of a shared constitutional monarchy and a continuing association between the new nations and the Irish Republic. This could be pursued through a revamped British-Irish Council (Council of the Isles), similar to the Nordic Council in which all members are treated as equals.
Representatives serving on the Council would seek areas where members could co-operate for their mutual benefit.

Based closely on the Nordic Council, this is how the Council of the Isles could operate:

To those of us who live in the region, co-operation is only natural and we give it little thought as we go about our daily business.
Our common history and culture and the English language contribute greatly to this sense of community. Cross-border networking is customary and cooperation works smoothly with a minimum of formal restrictions.
However, many of the opportunities we have for working together are the result of formal agreements between our governments.

The Council of the Isles has pursued a policy that says: we gain by acting collectively and not duplicating work. As a result, we enjoy freedom of movement across borders; we are entitled to work and study in each other's countries without a lot of red tape and we are entitled to health care if we fall ill in another country within the region. Our respective defence systems also participate in common procurement schemes and we can boast a common action plan for environmental protection.

Council of the Isles l
The Council of the Isles is the interparliamentary body involving the MPs from the parliaments of England, Scotland, Ireland and Wales, and the English crown dependencies of Jersey, Guernsey and the Isle of Man.
The Council of the Isles takes initiatives and acts in an advisory and supervisory capacity on issues and matters of interest.
The parties undertake to seek to preserve and further develop co-operation between our nations in the legal, cultural, social and financial areas as well as in matters relating to transport and protection of the environment. More recently, this definition has been expanded and now also includes a binding commitment in foreign and security policy issues.
The Council of the Isles Council of Ministers is the intergovernmental body.

The delegations
The individual national parliaments appoint the members of the Council of the Isles.
As far as possible, the political composition of the national delegations should reflect the balance of power in the national parliaments.

Party groups
The members of the Council of the Isles work together in cross-border party groups.

The committees
The Council of the Isles has five committees:

The Culture and Education and Training Committee
The Culture and Education and Training Committee is responsible for culture, teaching, education, training and research. The committee works on the following issues:
General culture and art in the member countries and abroad; film and media; languages; sports; the voluntary sector; children's and youth culture; primary and secondary schools; the education and training market; general and adult education; life-long learning; research; research training and exchange programmes.

The Welfare Committee

The Welfare Committee processes issues concerning welfare, social and health care policy. The committee works on the following issues:
Welfare and care schemes; social and health care; disability; construction and housing; family, children and young people; abuse of drugs, alcohol and other substances.

The Citizens' and Consumer Rights Committee
The Citizens' and Consumer Rights Committee deals with issues concerning the rights of citizens and consumers as well as associated matters of democracy, human rights, equality, etc. The committee works on the following issues:
Democracy; human rights; civic rights; equality; consumer affairs; food safety; combating crime, including international crime and terrorism; legislation; immigration and refugee issues; co-operation against racism.

Environment and Natural Resources Committee
The Environment and Natural Resources Committee deals with questions concerning the protection of our environment and natural resources. The committee works on the following issues:
Environment; forestry and agriculture; fishery; sustainable development; energy.

Business and Industry Committee
The Business and Industry Committee deals with frameworks and parameters for the economy, production and trade, including freedom of movement in the market and in the labour market in the region. The committee works on the following issues:
Business/industry; inner markets, freedom of movement, removal of border obstacles; commerce; regional and structural aid; employment and the labour market; working environment; infrastructure/transport; communications; IT.

Control Committee and the Budget
The Control Committee exercises the parliamentary control over work financed by joint Council funds.
The budget for the Council is financed by contributions from the parliaments. The budget for the work of the Council of the Isles Council of Ministers is financed by the national governments. National contributions are calculated according to a formula based on GDP.

The Presidium
The Presidium of the Council of the Isles is the governing body of the Council.
It consists of a president and ordinary members. The president is elected for one year and the presidency rotates among the member countries.
The main task of the Presidium is to discuss overriding political and administrative issues, foreign and security policy issues and the budget and to function as the primary point of contact with the Adjacent Areas as well as regional and international organisations.

At last, someone suggesting co-operation instead of constantly comming up with bizzare Scottish conspiracy theories.

I really like the idea. This suggestion (instead of rants from certain others) has persuaded me to look into this issue more. :-)
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Thanks. I circulated that idea alongside proposing a policy of independence for the English Democrats. Unfortunately, they were so indisposed to the idea of independence that they overlooked this ...
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I repeat, I think it's a terrific idea. Soon it will become a debated issue and eventually perhaps a reality. That would be a miraculous day and I hope some of us live to see it dawn.
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Originally Posted by Rye Spangle:
At last, someone suggesting co-operation instead of constantly coming up with bizzare Scottish conspiracy theories.

I really like the idea. This suggestion (instead of rants from certain others) has persuaded me to look into this issue more. :-)

Pray, do tell us what is the difference between the comments of which you complain and the snide comments you make here? On the evidence here, it is by no means one way traffic! :-)

I don't suppose you'd be able to cite particular of alleged 'bizarre Scottish conspiracy theories'? Would they be by or about Scots - or both? It's so much easier to make unsubstantiated complaints, isn't it? :-)


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The trouble - as with much of the debate about the future of the UK/British Isles is that UNLIKE the Nordic Council's members, the elements of the British Isles are clearly not equivalent. It might make sense for five Nordic countries to treat each other as equals when 3 have populations of roughly 5 million and one 9 million (albeit Iceland is much smaller on 300k) but when England has 49million people it is hard to see how it can enter into an equal partnership with countries of 1, 3, 5 and 7 million people without some form of subdivision - which seems to be unacceptable to those of an English Nationalist persuasion.
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