Where is the Free Wales Party!

Tory’s No to Assembly lawmaking
Wales on Line

Sep 4 2008 by Martin Shipton, Western Mail

A WELSH Conservative MP has caused a political storm by announcing he plans to launch a cross-party campaign for a No vote in the promised referendum on full lawmaking powers for the National Assembly.

Monmouth MP David Davies, who was an AM for eight years, said giving the Assembly extra powers would begin a slippery slope to independence and “Soviet-style poverty”.

Last year’s One Wales coalition agreement between Labour and Plaid Cymru committed the Assembly Government to hold a referendum before 2011, and to campaign for a Yes vote.
But both parties have held back from launching a Yes campaign organisation. Instead, they are waiting for a report from the All Wales Convention, chaired by Sir Emyr Jones Parry, the UK’s former Ambassador to the United Nations.

The convention has been asked to consult widely across Wales, gauging the public mood on the issue of full lawmaking powers.

Mr Davies, who is understood not to have discussed his plan with Tory Assembly leader Nick Bourne or Shadow Welsh Secretary Cheryl Gillan, said: “Granting full lawmaking powers to the Assembly would be a huge step along the rocky road to full independence for Wales, which is what many people in the Yes camp actually want. Make no mistake – independence would drag Wales down to Soviet-style poverty.

“The fact is that the Assembly depends on subsidies from the UK Government which would end if Wales was an independent state.

“I think it is important there is a full debate about the implications of what is planned by the Labour/Plaid Cymru administration.

“They are committed to holding a referendum on full lawmaking powers for the Assembly before 2011, and my concern is that if the opposing points are not made, we could be sleepwalking towards independence. It’s about time the people of Wales woke up to what is facing them.

“The Welsh Assembly up to now has not covered itself in glory. On health and education, its main responsibilities, it has failed to make any real impact. Wales has longer hospital waiting lists than England, and the performance of Welsh schools overall is not particularly good. Council tax bills have gone through the roof since the Assembly came into being.

“So far as I am concerned, the Assembly has done nothing to justify giving it more powers.”

Mr Davies said he was also not confident that the Assembly would be able to cope properly with legislation.“ I’m very doubtful whether legislation will be properly scrutinised at Cardiff Bay,” he said. The Monmouth MP said he wanted to set up a cross-party group and would be writing to the Electoral Commission seeking procedural advice. He said: “I know there are many Labour Party members who will support what I am saying. I have already had tentative talks with one ex-Labour MP. There are also likely to be some Liberal Democrats who are against further powers for the Assembly, and I believe the majority of Conservative Party members in Wales will be against too.”

Mr Davies said the name of the No campaign would be up for discussion, although he personally favoured “Wales For the Union”. He said: “Last time, calling the campaign ‘Just Say No’ was too negative, in my opinion. I would like a more positive message, emphasising Wales’ strength within the Union.”

Last night Plaid Cymru AM Helen Mary Jones said: “Despite the comments of David Davies, having spoken to Nick Bourne on many occasions I expect him to ensure that the Conservative Party officially supports a Yes vote in a referendum by 2011.

“I understood that Lord (Wyn) Roberts’ review of the Conservative position was designed to give a clear statement of support for the One Wales government’s stance. The Liberal Democrats and Labour already officially support a Yes vote. Yes, many Tories, including Nick Bourne, did help the No campaign in 1997, but the whole of the Conservative Party committed itself in the All-Wales accord (last year’s abortive Assembly Government agreement between Plaid Cymru, the Conservatives and the Liberal Democrats) to supporting a Yes vote in a referendum.

“I hope and expect the Conservative report from Wyn Roberts to lead to official support for the Yes campaign from David Cameron and Cheryl Gillan.”

No date has been set for the publication of Lord Roberts’ report.

Sep 4 2008 by Martin Shipton, Western Mail

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Don't know what the big deal is. They're only trying to be on equal footing to Scotland. Isn't that fair?

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In relation to the FEP leader thread topic for debate.I think it boils down to the fact that they FEP cant deleiver English Independence and they know it so they FEP are hoping others can deleiver it for them.

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It doesn't boil down to any fact. You can't deliver something like that overnight. If the SNP were formed in Scotland this year, would you expect them to be in a position to deliver Scottish independence within a year?

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Free England realise we cannot overnight produce independence for England. It is a process which we hope will lead to an event.

We are in this for the long haul, and independence won't be achieved overnight. The sooner you understand this concept the better you will understand our strategy.

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Tell me Danny apart from verbal tripe what can you deleiver(sic)

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Originally Posted by Richard the Lionheart:
Free England realise we cannot overnight produce independence for England. It is a process which we hope will lead to an event.

We are in this for the long haul, and independence won't be achieved overnight. The sooner you understand this concept the better you will understand our strategy.

If Scotland and Wales hold referendums of independence in the next couple of years and approve them, where will that leave the FEP? Because if those referendums go through, the break up of the union and so independence will literally be acheived overnight.

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Originally Posted by HM:
If Scotland and Wales hold referendums of independence in the next couple of years and approve them, where will that leave the FEP? Because if those referendums go through, the break up of the union and so independence will literally be acheived overnight.

Unfortunately the English Parties are ignored by the establishment and are finding it hard to break-through.
It is a shame that England may become independent by default and not by the will of the English people.

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Originally Posted by daveb06:
Tell me Danny apart from verbal tripe what can you deleiver(sic)

Oh dear oh dear I wonder if this is David H in disguise folks.?This has nothing to do with the thread title for Debate.So there for

Mod Warning - thread content.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------This has nothing to do with the thread, and you are in danger of falling foul of the Mod warning given here: Mod Warning - thread content. see below

In response to complaints, and as a result of recent posts on a number of threads in this forum, please be aware of the following action that will be taken to try and assist this section of the democracy forum to become more constructive.

1. Any new post which does not contribute to debate (i.e consists of accusation/counter accusation) will be deleted. In extremis the whole thread will be deleted.
2. From tomorrow, any poster posting such posts will gain a sanction. these are cumulative, and will automatically generate a ban if you collect too many.
3. I will purge most recent threads also, but no sanctions will be issued.

I hope these steps will be accepted by posters on this forum as a positive step.

Thanks

C_S

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Pleased....

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