Is a straitjacket needed

Originally Posted by jim h:
This used to be a sensible sub forum until conspiracy theorists and anti Bush acolytes took it over. Soon Mohamed al Fayed will be a leading contributor. Lets get back to sensible topics

You talk about "sensible topics", but you're quick to link so called "conspiracy theorists" with the so-called "nutter" Mohammed Al Fayed, a very cheap trick to slander the name of anyone who can put forward a logical argument.

If you want to criticize, then I suggest you specifically keep on topic and reply with evidence and logic to the factual points made by the so call "conspiracy theorists", and not just throw your toys out of the pram because you're frightened about something that you won't admit to.

Governments around the world don't act sensibly, so you shouldn't criticize people for talking about the issues related to the government's lack of sense.

If anyone has lost all sense, it is the masses who are bought into the lies of the mainstream media.

Remember most goverments do not care not one jot about you or so called "democracy", so you should be thankful to anyone who seeks to uncover corruption based on factual evidence.

If you can't handle that, then it is just too bad.

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Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth:
You talk about "sensible topics", but you're quick to link so called "conspiracy theorists" with the so-called "nutter" Mohammed Al Fayed, a very cheap trick to slander the name of anyone who can put forward a logical argument.

If you want to criticize, then I suggest you specifically keep on topic and reply with evidence and logic to the factual points made by the so call "conspiracy theorists", and not just throw your toys out of the pram because you're frightened about something that you won't admit to.

Governments around the world don't act sensibly, so you shouldn't criticize people for talking about the issues related to the government's lack of sense.

If anyone has lost all sense, it is the masses who are bought into the lies of the mainstream media.

Remember most goverments do not care not one jot about you or so called "democracy", so you should be thankful to anyone who seeks to uncover corruption based on factual evidence.

If you can't handle that, then it is just too bad.

You think you know the truth, you cannot prove your claims. If governments had the will to carry out such atrocities then stop and think what they would do to anyone that was remotely close to exposing 'the truth'.....even Rosie O'Donnell :-)

I cannot help but think you are doing exactly what they want you to do, saddling up that big red herring and riding it like a bucking bronco.

youcanhandlethetruth when you know the truth......face facts....you will never know the truth.

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Originally Posted by PCMadness:
You think you know the truth, you cannot prove your claims. If governments had the will to carry out such atrocities then stop and think what they would do to anyone that was remotely close to exposing 'the truth'.....even Rosie O'Donnell :-)

I cannot help but think you are doing exactly what they want you to do, saddling up that big red herring and riding it like a bucking bronco.

youcanhandlethetruth when you know the truth......face facts....you will never know the truth.

You're right I cannot prove my claims.
All I can do is to present evidence, ideas and logic to educate people to the situation they face, but at the end of the day, they will believe what they want to believe.

I am fully aware governments have the will to carry out such atrocities, and anyone who thinks otherwise is being naive.
Though they are unlikely to perform such actions on people in the public eye - that would be self defeating, don't you agree ?

For that reason this is precisely the reason why I refrain from revealing any personal information. I hope you are not trying to send me a subliminal message ? I'm sure you're not !

"I cannot help but think you are doing exactly what they want you to do" - I don't know what makes you think I'm acting on the behalf of anybody, especially the government !
I find that comment confusing. Maybe I am foolish but I am generally trying to inform people, because at the very least, I will be personally affected if we follow the worrying path we're treading.

I may not ever know the whole truth, but I'm starting to understand large chunks of it, and believe me, it goes far deeper than anyone who be willing to admit to, especially if they were in the public eye - indeed they would not dare to utter it above their breath.......

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Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth:
You're right I cannot prove my claims.
All I can do is to present evidence, ideas and logic to educate people to the situation they face, but at the end of the day, they will believe what they want to believe.

I am fully aware governments have the will to carry out such atrocities, and anyone who thinks otherwise is being naive.
Though they are unlikely to perform such actions on people in the public eye - that would be self defeating, don't you agree ?

Maybe, but accidents do happen to famous people as well.

Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth:
For that reason this is precisely the reason why I refrain from revealing any personal information. I hope you are not trying to send me a subliminal message ? I'm sure you're not !

This has to be the most paranoic and idiotic statement to date :-) Of course I'm not, but the fact that you even suggested it makes me think that you have a seriously unhealthy obsession with this whole topic area. This hysteria seems to be more and more common throughout the troofer movement. I bet you believe that the aliens landed in 1947 as well. :SIGH:

Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth:
"I cannot help but think you are doing exactly what they want you to do" - I don't know what makes you think I'm acting on the behalf of anybody, especially the government !
I find that comment confusing. Maybe I am foolish but I am generally trying to inform people, because at the very least, I will be personally affected if we follow the worrying path we're treading.

But you're basing this on very flaky evidence, much of it hearsay. what's the saying. 'If you tell the lie often enough people believe it'.

Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth:
I may not ever know the whole truth, but I'm starting to understand large chunks of it, and believe me, it goes far deeper than anyone who be willing to admit to, especially if they were in the public eye - indeed they would not dare to utter it above their breath.......

Do you go into some sort of lockdown mode when you get home. Rings of security protecting you inner sanctum. Always watching for those black ops helicoptors hovering above. I'm sorry to sound scathing but I'm building up a mental picture of you that seems to look more and more like the character played by David Duchovny in Zoolander.

(J.P. Prewett (David Duchovny), formerly the world's greatest hand model and now a recluse, mysteriously appears to inform Derek and Matilda of the vastness of the fashion industry's reach into geopolitical intrigue, implicating the industry in, for example, the assassination of Presidents Abraham Lincoln and John F. Kennedy to prevent the industry's loss of profit. ) just in case poeple didn't get the reference:-)

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Ok PCMadness, lets go over your points buddy :-)

"Maybe, but accidents do happen to famous people as well."

Yes when they're important enough. JFK, Reagan, Martin Luther King etc.
But never to any member of the establishment.
Purely co-incidence ?
You may say there's no proof, but you could say that about all the co-incidences of 911 when they were doing exactly a similar type of drill on the same day. Same for 7/7 too.
You say "stop and think what they would do to anyone that was remotely close to exposing 'the truth'....."
I think maybe you're aware of what's going on too, but social conditioning has bought you into the need for "proof"(whatever your defintion of that is ?) and you are now clear showing signs of "doublethink"
(promise no offence intended, just my take)

"For that reason this is precisely the reason why I refrain from revealing any personal information. I hope you are not trying to send me a subliminal message ? I'm sure you're not !"

I meant that comment as a joke more than anything, but I worded it badly, I should've put lol or :-) at the end - sorry my fault.
If you look at the "Complaints" thread you will see under "Adam" there is a guy who wants his e-mail address removed becasue it shows up on a google search that is causing him grief now.
That is what I was really thinking of - I just don't want to put my name to anything that might harm my career - only the other day I was told by a recruiter that companies are using web searches to find info out on people. Same for the "facebook" newspaper article - did you see that ?
Obviously they would think I was a complete nutter(even though I'm only telling the truth)
So that's the reality of what's going on now. But yes I shouldn't have put it like that - I didn't mean "Because they're going to bump me off" ! :-) Supposed I did mean it in jest and was interested in your reaction too.
(Yes my credibility about everything else I've ever said is now gone - oh schucks !)

"But you're basing this on very flaky evidence, much of it hearsay. what's the saying. 'If you tell the lie often enough people believe it'."

That's the quote Hitler used !?? :-) :-)
Again, are you suggesting that I am criticizing the government, and I am linked to the government as well ? :-)
Is that the "red herring" you're talking about, or you're suggesting that I'm being fooled by the powers that be ?
Yes, even if I was some kind of agent, I would deny it, but come on - I wouldn't do it the way I'm doing it.
I just don't get your comment "I cannot help but think you are doing exactly what they want you to do"
If I AM paranoid, I suspect you're not far behind me ! :-)

Also, I'm presenting the evidence more than anything - people will always think it's flaky if they want to. At least it makes people question things.
Again, I would argue to please tell me your defintion of "proof"....

Your last comment - well supposed I asked for that, but yes, I was probably sensationalizing a bit (not that I doubt things are messed up big time)
[Hey come on if you're looking at bad sh*t all the time, you need to joke in a while....]

But believe me, I never do that in ANY of my posts - I don't need to, there's enough bad stuff going on without the need to !
I was trying to emphasize the point that 99% of people are living in complete fantasyland when it comes to judging reality, and they judge everything from how they are supposed to imagine the ideal world to be, not how it is, whether it affects them or not.

That's why I suspect people are quick to throw the label of "conspiracy theorist" when their denial instincts kick in.

Yes we may all have a cozy existence in our homes, where ignorance is bliss and everything is normal, but that doesn't mean it reflects the motivation for what really happens in the the real world.

Anyway thanks for the discussion - I must admit I kind of enjoyed it :-)(joking.... ? :-) )

Well now I've really opened myself up for some criticism ! :-)

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