Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth:
Do you find UFO's and aliens believable ? Not something I'd look at.
Why? Do you think we are the only beings out here? That's a little arrogant. Of course it's a possibility.
Scientists have scientifically disproved the official stories like the government's account on 9/11. Surely that's the important thing - the facts ?

I've actually read both sides on the science of especially the collapse of one of the buildings on that day - yes, the facts. There are theories that pop up every single time one of these tragedies happen and I don't have to believe your version of the facts. I like the facts very much, maybe you haven't seen what I have.

What do you think is distinguishable between the two parties ?
I assumed you meant political parties so when I said that that I didn't think it was really true, I was talking about this emergence over the years of the neo-conservatives in the Republican party, particularly headed by Bush. They injected an extremism into politics that will take a long time to moderate. They tend to have more money so over the years they have been able to have radio and an entire tv network dedicated to disseminating their beliefs. It's rich vs. poor, white vs. black, own vs. rent.
Can you elaborate what you mean by "money, self-service, infrastructure of government." ?
What I meant was, money is what motivates anyone for anything. Whatever serves the self is what motivates. Infrastructure of government - I just meant that it's set up that way. Nothing will change without some pain. That's why we haven't gotten off of foreign oil.
Do you mean they're serving the bureaucracy of government and big business and not serving the public ? Sure.



I totally agree.

Iraq was all about oil and no bid contracts for big business like Haliburton.

But there could be no justification for it without 9/11 - that's no conspiracy either that's fact too.
Whilst it doesn't prove anything either(you'll need to spend a few hours researching the masses of evidence) are you aware of what the PNAC (Project For a New American Century) documents said in "Rebuilding America's defences" before 9/11 ? If not, look it up on google.

When you say "privatizing our military or creating a private paramilitary" do you mean Blackwater or allowing foreigners into the armed forces ?

I heard Bush planned on Iraq even before 9/11 - he has never needed an excuse to do anything he wanted.
[Rep]

Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth:
By the way did you read the article I sent you where it shows how the Bush's and Clinton's vacation together ?

The elder Bush and former President Clinton have done a lot of global work together however, it is not uncommon for Republicans and Democrats to vacation or spend time together. Recently, a Republican senator wrote a poem and read it aloud in front of the senate for the returning Democrat Ted Kennedy because he has a brain tumor. He could hardly keep from crying because they have a close friendship. These people in Washington know and have worked together for years.
[Rep]

Thanks for the replies a little birdy.

Firstly, I'm not discounting UFO's or aliens since I hope I have an open mind - I probably wouldn't look at it simply because I believe there are far more important and frightening issues to fight for. Sorry if I sounded arrogant though.

So do you believe the official government account of what happened on 9/11 ?

Given the policies of both parties, what you have said and what I've shown you, does it concern you that the Democrats will have exactly the same agenda as this administration ?

I suppose I'm just asking whether you are a democrat supporter or not, and if so which candidate do you support ?
[Rep]

Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth:
Thanks for the replies a little birdy.

Firstly, I'm not discounting UFO's or aliens since I hope I have an open mind - I probably wouldn't look at it simply because I believe there are far more important and frightening issues to fight for. Sorry if I sounded arrogant though.

So do you believe the official government account of what happened on 9/11 ?

Given the policies of both parties, what you have said and what I've shown you, does it concern you that the Democrats will have exactly the same agenda as this administration ?

I suppose I'm just asking whether you are a democrat supporter or not, and if so which candidate do you support ?

I am a Democrat but I am agreeable to the Green platform however, third parties just don't make it here and Greens are considered far too liberal. So, I stick with the Democrats since there are many good people in the party supporting what I believe - most especially one of my two Senators. We even have a city council in Northern California that has a majority of Greens - don't know how that happened. I don't get too concerned when you say the two parties will have the exact same agenda because their beliefs aren't the same. Right now it it kind of sounds like that but that's because they are trying to win but we have to look at their votes and these to guys running are like day and night (that's not meant to be racial).
As for 9/11, you might want to be more specific because we've been talking generalities here and I want to know what you're referring to exactly so we can get to your point.
[Rep]

Originally Posted by a_little_birdy:
I am a Democrat but I am agreeable to the Green platform however, third parties just don't make it here and Greens are considered far too liberal. So, I stick with the Democrats since there are many good people in the party supporting what I believe - most especially one of my two Senators. We even have a city council in Northern California that has a majority of Greens - don't know how that happened. I don't get too concerned when you say the two parties will have the exact same agenda because their beliefs aren't the same. Right now it it kind of sounds like that but that's because they are trying to win but we have to look at their votes and these to guys running are like day and night (that's not meant to be racial).
As for 9/11, you might want to be more specific because we've been talking generalities here and I want to know what you're referring to exactly so we can get to your point.

Oh you're part of the green brigade to save the planet.
I wonder have you watched the Great Global Warming Swindle ?
It's on youtube. I suggest you watch it if you haven't seen it.

The only Democrat I really like is Denis Kucinich, because he's trying to institgate impeachment proceedings against Bush right now (are you aware of that ?).
Of course the democrat controlled senate and judiciary committee could make that happen if they wanted to (what better way to kick out the neo-cons ?) but they won't because they know they would be indicted for treason themselves.

"Right now it it kind of sounds like that but that's because they are trying to win"

Sorry but I don't buy that at all - most Americans for example are against the war but Obama and Hilary are both pro-war, pro NAU, pro New World Order etc etc.
So they are hardly trying to represent the people if they really wanted the people to get behind them, but of course that's not the plan.

As for 9/11 it's too huge a subject for me to debate all over again - but you're welcome to search this forum for my posts on the subject, or alternatively I'd firmly recommend you watch "Loose change" on youtube.
But yes I do firmly beleive it was an inside job.
Just wondered whether you did or not.

By the way I don't mean to worry you but are you aware the American government are building FEMA camps in case of "national emergency" ?
[Rep]

Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth:
Oh you're part of the green brigade to save the planet.
I wonder have you watched the Great Global Warming Swindle ?
It's on youtube. I suggest you watch it if you haven't seen it.

The only Democrat I really like is Denis Kucinich, because he's trying to institgate impeachment proceedings against Bush right now (are you aware of that ?).
Of course the democrat controlled senate and judiciary committee could make that happen if they wanted to (what better way to kick out the neo-cons ?) but they won't because they know they would be indicted for treason themselves.

"Right now it it kind of sounds like that but that's because they are trying to win"

Sorry but I don't buy that at all - most Americans for example are against the war but Obama and Hilary are both pro-war, pro NAU, pro New World Order etc etc.
So they are hardly trying to represent the people if they really wanted the people to get behind them, but of course that's not the plan.

As for 9/11 it's too huge a subject for me to debate all over again - but you're welcome to search this forum for my posts on the subject, or alternatively I'd firmly recommend you watch "Loose change" on youtube.
But yes I do firmly beleive it was an inside job.
Just wondered whether you did or not.

By the way I don't mean to worry you but are you aware the American government are building FEMA camps in case of "national emergency" ?

No, I haven't watched the green video but I'll look for it. Yes, Kucinich was my first choice when the presidential race began. Unfortunately, he was never meant to make it because he is too liberal. Yes, I certainly know about his attempts at impeachment proceedings. Previously, they were killed by other Democrats perhaps because we have such a good Democratic candidate running for president and the public generally sees impeachment as political and a waste of time and money. Personally, I say this corrupt administration needs it. Now, you mentioned truthfully how we have a Democratically controlled Sentate. However, it is by an extremely thin margin. By about one I think. If you have a Democrat in the south who is in trouble in the coming election, they can be convinced easily on certain votes because those states have alot of Republicans. Or even if the House and the Senate work it all out but the President vetoes the bill, there won't be enough votes to override the veto. This is our problem now - 9% approval rating of Congress because nothing seems to be getting done. Why does the judiciary committee not haul in the corrupt? Bush will pardon them on his way out the door. But no, no treason - that's not something we see in this situation. We see that for members of the CIA who sell our secrets or citizens who become terrorists against us. It carries a death sentence. Heavy duty.
Obama has never been pro-war actually, his only sin has been approving continued funding for troops. Clinton did vote for the war but she claimed faulty information. She also approved continued funding.
I haven't seen Loose Change but I saw a documentary refuting it. It's been awhile though. The science behind it was very convincing.
The only FEMA camps I know of are the toxic trailers from hurricane Katrina.
[Rep]

Whilst you observe a lot of the facts very well in a lot of your above post, I disagree with your following statements:

"Obama has never been pro-war actually" - if you examine what he says(see my post on Obama) he clearly says he want to re-deploy troops in Afghanistan.

"I haven't seen Loose Change but I saw a documentary refuting it. It's been awhile though. The science behind it was very convincing."

If you think the science refuting it was convincing, you should watch Loose change for sure and do more research into 9/11 - then you will see it is an open and shut case when you discover the wealth of information that is not put in public view.

"The only FEMA camps I know of are the toxic trailers from hurricane Katrina."

Well then I suggest you research into this as a matter of urgency for your own and your childrens future.
[Rep]

What was discussed at a closed session of the U.S. House of Representatives? .
[Rep]

Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth:
Whilst you observe a lot of the facts very well in a lot of your above post, I disagree with your following statements:

"Obama has never been pro-war actually" - if you examine what he says(see my post on Obama) he clearly says he want to re-deploy troops in Afghanistan.

"I haven't seen Loose Change but I saw a documentary refuting it. It's been awhile though. The science behind it was very convincing."

If you think the science refuting it was convincing, you should watch Loose change for sure and do more research into 9/11 - then you will see it is an open and shut case when you discover the wealth of information that is not put in public view.

"The only FEMA camps I know of are the toxic trailers from hurricane Katrina."

Well then I suggest you research into this as a matter of urgency for your own and your childrens future.

To clarify, I should say that Obama is not pro-Iraq war. That is what is most discussed anymore. Afghanistan is not really discussed these days nor was it really controversial when we went in. As a presidential campaign issue, the Iraq war in particular is what is always what we are referring to so sorry about that.
Look, you say you don't want to discuss 9/11 but you keep talking about it. It's frustrating to talk about it when I don't get details and since I haven't delved into the subject in awhile. So either let me know details or let's not at all. You obviously are convinced of one thing but I saw something that was a refutation of Loose Change. I didn't have to see Loose Change at the time because what I saw presented allegations Loose Change made and then refuted them. That's all. You keep telling me to investigate this or that as if I'm not educated enough about what goes on and you're mistaken. I simply don't believe every allegation, theory or whatever that is presented. There are a TON of them out there and I can investigate until the cows come home but just because someone believes that something suspicious was done doesn't make it so. You're right, if I knew more I could make a better argument but I am hard-pressed to find anyone I could believe whole-heartedly in an explanation, a conspiracy on 9/11. There is always a market for this type of thing - searching for explanation, multiple theories. Personally, I believe more in the "Shock Doctrine". Heard of the book? Tragedies aren't necessarily created but taken advantage of in times of shock like 9/11, hurricanes etc. Bad things happen and then bad people swoop in and cash in.
[Rep]

little_birdy> Yes I have read Shock Doctrine as well, a great book. :-)

I think YCHTT is referring to the documentary Loose Change - Final cut.
I have to say it does present some convincing arguments and is an updated version of the original Loose Change documentary that came out a few years back.
The BBC did a TV show about building 7 recently which examines both sides of the argument.

I would say there are a lot of unanswered questions and for anyone who has read Shock Doctrine it certainly outlines the sort of mentality that would construct an event like 9/11 whether it was an "inside" job or not I guess we will never know until there is an independent investigation.

Ea of dune
[Rep]