Originally Posted by BonnieDundee:
They don't have the right to govern themselves though and the Georgians do.

Good on South Ossetia and good on Russia for once.

Scotland to a certain extent have self governance as do Wales and N. Ireland, England doesn't.
Should we invade?
No don't bother, N.I.C.E. will kill off the English sooner or later.
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Originally Posted by Westcountryman:
dum Roma deliberat Saguntum perit (while Rome debates, Saguntum is in danger)

"LOL" at whoever called me a "traitor". :-)
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Come on people lets try and get some sort of sanity in this conversation.

All thats going on here is that the Georgians have tried to assert their sovereignty and indulge in a bit of bear baiting by exerting control over one of their provinces in definance of the Status Quo. In this the Georgians have been silly and have completely misjudged the reality of the situation. However the Russians can not and will not accept this rude provocation at their own back door, especially not when its citizens are getting shaken down. Any reasonable man could have learned this important lesson from the wreckage of Chechnya.

This is part of a pattern of naive and dangerously irresponsible behavior by the Georgians. The Russians have allowed them their sovereignty out of a sense of decency and despite the considerable risks of doing so given the strategic importance of the region. The Georgians have responded by whoring themselves to the West at every opportunity for no better reason than to annoy the Kremlin.

If the Georgians think the West and NATO are going to have a word with the Russians they are sadly misjudging the reality of the situation. Russia might not be the USSR but then again neither is NATO. The possibility of the toy solider armies of Europe and the shattered demoralized ruins of the US Army fronting Moscow for any reason is zero. Certainly this is not remotely a possibility on Georgia's account and while most of Europe is mainlining Russian oil and gas. A poorly chosen harsh word could result in Russia playing "spook the market" and sending oil prices off the chart, which apart from being tremendous fun would seriously enrich the Ruskies into the bargain. (the probable motivation of the Russian air force's tickling of the Caspian pipeline)

No doubt the Russians are slightly embarrassed to actual have to go as far as to *****-slap one of it's satellites, demonstrating an unacceptable lack of respect from its clients. But they can console themselves that unlike Iraq Georgia will be totally rehabilitated within hours neatly underlining the superiority of Russian style shock and awe, which really is shocking and awe inspiring, over the insipid and more costly in every way NATO version.

Its about time the West stopped pretending that serious people like the Russians and Chinese are in anyway interested in our squeamish militant idiocy. Apart from being embarrassing it encourages credulous types to put themselves in tricky spots, much to their unnecessary cost.

Indeed I think the only reason the Russian's are not squeezing Europe's balls a great deal tighter than they are is because they are hoping that we might man up at some point and help them deal the appalling geo-political/economic mess we are all in. If I were PM the first thing I would do would be to fly to Moscow with Peter Mandelson's severed head in Tescos carrier bag, I would invite Putin to a game of "Keepy upies" in Red Square by way of a repudiation of the Treaty of Rome and its successors, a general demonstration of the new order and a graphic symbol of the return of the rule of sanity to the UK. (*1)

*1 Maybe we could do in a couple of bottles of Vodka and then fire the wretched thing towards Brussels''s out of that massive cannon. Symbolism, it's all about the style.
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This is what all the fighting is about. Georgia is asking for cease fire but Russia keep bombing trying to destroy the pipeline. They keep missing the target.

The Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline (sometimes abbreviated as BTC pipeline) is a crude oil pipeline that covers 1,768 kilometres (1,099 mi) from the Azeri-Chirag-Guneshli oil field in the Caspian Sea to the Mediterranean Sea. It connects Baku, the capital of Azerbaijan; Tbilisi, the capital of Georgia; and Ceyhan, a port on the south-eastern Mediterranean coast of Turkey, hence its name. It is the second longest oil pipeline in the world after the Druzhba pipeline. The first oil that was pumped from the Baku end of the pipeline on May 10, 2005 reached Ceyhan on May 28, 2006.[1]

Here's the owners of the pipeline.
BP (United Kingdom): 30.1%
State Oil Company of Azerbaijan (SOCAR) (Azerbaijan): 25.00%
Chevron (USA): 8.90%
StatoilHydro (Norway): 8.71%
Türkiye Petrolleri Anonim Ortaklığı (TPAO) (Turkey): 6.53%
Eni/Agip (Italy): 5.00%
Total (France): 5.0%
Itochu (Japan): 3.4%
Inpex (Japan): 2.50%
ConocoPhillips (USA): 2.50%
Hess Corporation (USA) 2.36%

Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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The reason Russia keeps bombing, even though Georgia has asked for a cease fire,
is because Russia is trying to destroy the pipeline. They keep missing.

The Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline (sometimes abbreviated as BTC pipeline) is a crude oil pipeline that covers 1,768 kilometres (1,099 mi) from the Azeri-Chirag-Guneshli oil field in the Caspian Sea to the Mediterranean Sea. It connects Baku, the capital of Azerbaijan; Tbilisi, the capital of Georgia; and Ceyhan, a port on the south-eastern Mediterranean coast of Turkey, hence its name. It is the second longest oil pipeline in the world after the Druzhba pipeline. The first oil that was pumped from the Baku end of the pipeline on May 10, 2005 reached Ceyhan on May 28, 2006.[1]

Here's the owners of the BTC pipeline.

BP (United Kingdom): 30.1%
State Oil Company of Azerbaijan (SOCAR) (Azerbaijan): 25.00%
Chevron (USA): 8.90%
StatoilHydro (Norway): 8.71%
Türkiye Petrolleri Anonim Ortaklığı (TPAO) (Turkey): 6.53%
Eni/Agip (Italy): 5.00%
Total (France): 5.0%
Itochu (Japan): 3.4%
Inpex (Japan): 2.50%
ConocoPhillips (USA): 2.50%
Hess Corporation (USA) 2.36%

Baku-Tbilisi-Ceyhan pipeline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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First some information:

Reports: Russia sinks Georgian ship trying to attack Russian navy ships | International | Jerusalem Post

More evidence of foreign mercenaries being used...

More Evidence of U.S. Complicity in S. Ossetia Invasion

The BBC is deliberately distorting the News from the Georgia Region

Russia sinks Georgian ship trying to attack Russian navy ships


Now for let me remind you all of how serious this is:

Putin: Russia Will Retaliate if US Puts Rocket Base in Europe

What is happening is clear:

1) Georgia launched an attack killing over 2000 South Ossetians and Russia retaliated in self-defence.

2) This is being provacateured by the U.S and foreign mercenaries.

3) The mainstream media is purposefully lying about Russian "agression" despite the fact that over 2000 deaths in South Ossetia were caused as a result of Georgian attack, supported by U.S forces and other foreign malitia

Originally Posted by Westcountryman:
Yes, Russia trying to re-assert its dominance in the region under the pretence of 'protecting Russian citizens'. What a great idea.

I doubt the main reason is "protecting Russian citizens"

States like Ukraine have U.S military bases with weapons pointed at the Russians.
Obviously the Russians are none too happy about it, and have said as much many times before and really who can blame them ?

Especially now as Georgia(with U.S backing) have clearly instigated this latest attack.

So not suprisingly Russia may feel the need to re-capture Georgia and may be inclined to attempt to re-capture other puppet states like Ukraine with similar bases.

That doesn't make any conflict or violence right, but let's not pretend like the BBC do that the Russian response is "unwarranted."

What would we do if we had missiles pointing at us and had an unprovoked attack near our border ?

For god sake wake up people.

Originally Posted by Westcountryman:
I just hope for the Russians' sake that they don't try the same thing in the Baltic states.

For the Russians sake ?!!!! :-)

What about us ?!! :-)

May I remind you what Putin said in the above article on 31 May 2007:

The Kremlin leader says the planned missile shield in Poland and the Czech Republic will put "an integral part of the U.S. nuclear arsenal" on Russia's doorstep and upset the world strategic balance. In response, Mr. Putin says, Russia "naturally" will point its own nuclear weapons at U.S. military sites and other locations in Europe.

And this article too dated June 2007:

Putin in nuclear threat against Europe - Telegraph

Putin:

"It is obvious that if part of the strategic nuclear potential of the United States is located in Europe we will have to respond," he told reporters from G8 countries in Moscow at the weekend.

"What kind of steps are we are going to take in response? Of course we are going to acquire new targets in Europe."

He is also right when he says:

"we are not the ones who are initiating the arms race in Europe"

Russia threatens to point nuclear missiles at European cities - Wikinews, the free news source

The Telegraph article talks about "Mr Putin's anti-western rhetoric" but this is typical spin and madness when it is the U.S who are putting in these "defence" bases to begin with - if ever there was an example of "anti-eastern behaviour" then this is is, but the media make Putin to be "anti-west" when he is forced to respond to such a threat.
Oh how the media love to play on our ill-founded allegiances when their actions put eveyone in America and Western Europe in grave danger...... :-)

The scenario is likely to be that if Russia do attempt to re-capture these other states who have military capability (like Ukraine) then the media will lap it up and say "See - the Russians are attacking, America must attack Russia now and start a world war.....".

Despite the fact that it was U.S who provacateured the event in the first place by not only building the bases on Russia's doorstep, but by using Georgia to provocateur the attack too.

So here you go, we're all primed and ready for yet another "false flag" event which may lead to World conflict, brought to you by Bush acting in behalf of the New World Order......

Realize one thing - these neo-cons like Cheney that are pulling the strings in Washington are crazy and out of control.

So before people get smug, waving the EU flag and being proud of their nationalistic and anti Russian stance, they should remember that the it is us that will be the target should the US/NATO/UK seek to escalate the conflict(which by provacateuring the attack they have worrying already started)

As I've been warning, the U.S(using client state Georgia) are deliberately provacateuring Russia into this action to escalate the crisis and put us all at risk, whilst the BBC spins it's anti-Russian lies and propaganda.

Do you fancy a nuclear warhead on your plate for breakfast ?

Then get real, get angry at the threat we all face from this disgusting western propaganda and our own governments who wish to wage war on us by sparking a new world war as a means of "world population control". :-)

Do yourselves all a big favour - swallow your pride and get over to infowars.com now....

Wake up people ffs !
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Originally Posted by Westcountryman:
We tried that route before, I believe it was called 'appeasement'.

Georgia attacked Russia and Russia are acting out of self defence.

So stop talking complete **** ! :-)
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Originally Posted by Little Englander (sour):
Scotland to a certain extent have self governance as do Wales and N. Ireland, England doesn't.
Should we invade?
No don't bother, N.I.C.E. will kill off the English sooner or later.

That doesn't make a lick of sense. It isn't Scotland that is in charge of the British gov't.
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Originally Posted by Westcountryman:
Yes, Russia trying to re-assert its dominance in the region under the pretence of 'protecting Russian citizens'. What a great idea.

I just hope for the Russians' sake that they don't try the same thing in the Baltic states.

The South Ossetians are not part of Russia, they simply want indepedence.
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Originally Posted by Westcountryman:
We tried that route before, I believe it was called 'appeasement'.

Yes those damn South Ossetians are going to take over the world once they have gained their independence.
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