Dissident Congress 01:09 PM 22-09-2008
The
DC FAQ has been updated to include a section on 9/11.
Lee didn't respond to the email sent by the DC member dealing with foreign affairs, so I presume he is happy with it.
[Rep]
youcanhandlethetruth 05:04 AM 23-09-2008
Dissident Congress,
I am slightly disappointed by your position.
IMO the truth has everything to do with domestic policy if you understood it's significance about how politics and power is decided.
And have you considered you are making the wrong assumption ?
You say "wants the truth, and only the truth, about what happened on the 11th day of September 2001." but then you say you "are not prepared to devote time and energy to find out the truth about 9/11 because it will detract us from tasks concerning more important domestic issues."
Are you concerned with the truth, if you're not prepared to deal with the issue at all ?
Really, why even bother mentioning it.
You talk a lot about "theories" but what about the hard facts ?
For example it is scientifically proven no plane hit the pentagon.
Whether you want to classify that as a "theory" or not, does not remove the
fact that the official story has been disproved.
FACT.
I suggest you deal with the facts, not theories and demand a new investigation, since the official story is
provenly untrue.
Anyway, no malice intended at all and I hope this won't sound patronizing but it is just a matter of understanding and being aware of the facts.
Just thought I'd mention that.......
[Rep]
youcanhandlethetruth 05:09 AM 23-09-2008
Also just another point, you say:
"It is difficult to determine the quality and accuracy of the material on these 9/11 truth websites"
May I suggest you try the following totally honourable(not that there are any unhonourable ones from what I've seen but I take your point) websites which shows what I am referring to:
Scholars for 9/11 Truth - Home
pilotsfor911truth.org
[Rep]
Ea of Dune 12:37 PM 23-09-2008
YHTT> The problem is where would they stop? If 9/11 why not the IMF and economic hitmen from the US and elsewhere as well, why not the plethora of other issues which do have an affect upon our domestic siuation that take place over seas?
I would say domestic organisations that do not deal specifically with a single topic e.g. 9/11, the arms trade etc. should not become bogged down in a single issue, what is the point? There are other organisations that cater to that.
Also not everyone would agree with your assessment. The Truth movement does not agree on all the facts, nor have I seen a single theory put forward backed by solid data all the way that can prove the players, funding etc. from start to finish..... and that includes the official story.
The best bet is for an independent enquiry where those in the know are forced under the law to give up documents etc. Whilst creating theories around the issue is interesting and may reveal some more facts, at the end of the day nobody currently coming out in the public sphere has 100% proof of what actually took place that day.
Since nobody here, not even the British government has the ability to force any American to give evidence in a British court, what is the point of groups like DC trying to "investigate" or take a stance on the issue as an official policy?
Better to leave it to the Americans and concentrate on our own issues we can change, rather then waste time and resources on a subject where there is many theories and few concrete answers.
That is just my thoughts on it, I'd be interested to hear what DC say.
Ea of dune
[Rep]
Dissident Congress 02:11 PM 23-09-2008
The FAQ was written by the DC member dealing with foreign affairs who is a strong believer that 9/11 was an inside job and is involved with the 9/11 truth movement himself. I'm not 100% happy with the FAQ myself and the issue of 9/11 will be discussed at a future DC meeting and the FAQ amended as appropriate.
Some DC members want the official DC policy to be changed into rejecting the official story and adopting a policy that the US Government was behind 9/11 in one form or another, but not forming a conclusion as to what really happened without concrete evidence. However, some DC members - notably Lee Consterdine and Jennifer Cameron - are sticklers for the official story and reject the claims of the "conspiracy theorists".
There are numerous organisations trying to uncover the truth about 9/11 - some of which are better than others. Therefore it would be more productive for DC to maintain a friendly relationship with the higher quality organisations than it would be to launch investigations ourselves. One organisation that appears to be good quality is
AE911Truth
DC demands an independent enquiry into 9/11 but the chances of this happening in the forseeable future are next to impossible.
[Rep]
youcanhandlethetruth 04:55 PM 23-09-2008
[quote=Ea of Dune;542707]YHTT> The problem is where would they stop? If 9/11 why not the IMF and economic hitmen from the US and elsewhere as well, why not the plethora of other issues which do have an affect upon our domestic siuation that take place over seas?
You mean why not other investigations of mass corruption ?
Why not indeed.
It's not just about 9/11 but there are things which need to be investigated about 7/7 too.
We are part of this fake "global war on terror" so if what actually happened was engineered to create it, then not only we should know about it(a lot of people already do) but it should be the reponsbility of us all to expose it and any govrnment/establishment involvement.
Effectively you're saying "oh well, let the government investigate itself.... "
Not only should we it should be our duty to expose these people.
After all we
supposedly live in a "transparent" society
If not things will get unbelievably worse and worse mark my words.
Originally Posted by Ea of Dune:
I would say domestic organisations that do not deal specifically with a single topic e.g. 9/11, the arms trade etc. should not become bogged down in a single issue, what is the point? There are other organisations that cater to that.
Because until the lie of 9/11 and 7/7 are exposed people will never wake up to the reality of government taking away people's human rights and civil liberites, in the name of "freedom".
Until we accept the facts, understand the big picture and those reponsible and get our heads screwed on to the truth, we're in big trouble.....
Originally Posted by Ea of Dune:
Also not everyone would agree with your assessment. The Truth movement does not agree on all the facts, nor have I seen a single theory put forward backed by solid data all the way that can prove the players, funding etc. from start to finish.....
You have a point, but I don't think there is that much division at all.
People have to be aware about people who are provacateuring the truth movement by making up bizaare stories like "No 2 planes crashed into the twin towers" and other rubbish used to discredit the mainly agreed consensus.
However I fully agree that it is not for anyone to say what exactly happened, although the weight of evidence from experts and eye witnesses does make for a
particularly strong case when prosecutions are eventually made.
Originally Posted by Ea of Dune:
and that includes the official story.
Oh come on
:-)
the official story has been disproven hundreds of times over.
Is it proven no Boeing crashed into the Pentagon ?
Yes it is, the govt is lying and they should be investigated, simple as that.....
Originally Posted by Ea of Dune:
The best bet is for an independent enquiry where those in the know are forced under the law to give up documents etc. Whilst creating theories around the issue is interesting and may reveal some more facts, at the end of the day nobody currently coming out in the public sphere has 100% proof of what actually took place that day.
I totally agree.
It isn't up to anyone to say what exactly happened, it's a case of the official story being provenly disproven.
Or "arguably" depending on whether you wish to "believe" the facts are made up by supposed "conspiracy theorists" like Prof Steven Jones. or DC's ignorant colleagues
:-)
Originally Posted by Ea of Dune:
Since nobody here, not even the British government has the ability to force any American to give evidence in a British court, what is the point of groups like DC trying to "investigate" or take a stance on the issue as an official
policy?
Probably nothing since DC can't even apparently be bothered to respond to the information I have given him.
Rather than people deciding they will take on the role of private investigator when they can't even research the basic facts themselves, they should leave it to trusted and
independent experts and support their cause.
Originally Posted by Ea of Dune:
Better to leave it to the Americans and concentrate on our own issues we can change, rather then waste time and resources on a subject where there is many theories and few concrete answers.
Don't you understand that Britain is WITH the Americans and that's why this event took place - i.e. for political reasons ?
Doesn't the British government and media constantly talk about the "war on terror" and how "9/11 and 7/7 changed everything" ?
Can't you see that it's
us the people and not the government (who are laughing at us) that are the catalyst for real change when we understand what has happened and why ?.....
I'm telling you - nothing will change until you remove the core of the problem, and that means recognizing and proving government are criminal....
(and have lied a thousand times over in ways you can't even imagine)
[Rep]
Dissident Congress 05:14 PM 23-09-2008
I think you had better have a word with Populist Lee about it. He got very
stressed out about something he saw on the
DC forum that doesn't even apply to his beloved Populist Party.
[Rep]
youcanhandlethetruth 06:22 PM 23-09-2008
Well if you want to think that everybody is in it for themselves, that's up to you, but whilst knowing nothing about him or his party, I totally agree with his statement.
And isn't everyone involved in politics(including yourself) doing it(rightly or wrongly) for more power ? Does that mean it's "bad" ?
Maybe you have got the problem with so called "competition" because you don't know your real enemy.
If so it's quite ridiculous IMO.
Given you didn't respond to my information, I don't think you understand the issues at stake or even want to know the real truth at all.....
Lee is entirely right by saying "It is not the business of the Dissident Congress organisation to be applying a value judgement to conspiracy theories."
Can't you simply deal with facts and forget about "conspiracy theories" ?
Or are you prejudiced and not trust them ?
:-)
[Rep]
Dissident Congress 06:36 PM 23-09-2008
Originally Posted by youcanhandlethetruth:
Well if you want to think that everybody is in it for themselves, that's up to you, but whilst knowing nothing about him or his party, I totally agree with his statement.
I have met Lee Consterdine in the flesh many times along with other members of the Populist Party so I probably know him better than you do.
[Rep]
youcanhandlethetruth 06:10 AM 24-09-2008
If he's doing it for personal gain(how could he be?) then by defintion he is not part of any "truth" movement, which remains true.
[Rep]