This is the only country i know, thats allows people come to live here from overseas, lets them ,burn our flag , insult us , some of them even try to blow us up. I remember being in Hyde park a couple of years ago ,and witnessed people demonstrating against us. Has enoch powell said we must be mad.YES WELCOME PCIF,can i hear your thoughts on the above please ?.
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Originally Posted by alfred the great:
This is the only country i know, thats allows people come to live here from overseas, lets them ,burn our flag , insult us , some of them even try to blow us up. I remember being in Hyde park a couple of years ago ,and witnessed people demonstrating against us. Has enoch powell said we must be mad.YES WELCOME PCIF,can i hear your thoughts on the above please ?.

Absolutely alfred the great.

So, whypatcondellisntfun, would you maybe have an explanation for these pictures.
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Originally Posted by alfred the great:
This is the only country i know, thats allows people come to live here from overseas, lets them ,burn our flag , insult us , some of them even try to blow us up. I remember being in Hyde park a couple of years ago ,and witnessed people demonstrating against us.

I quite like Freedom of speech. It is a gift to every citizen of the United Kingdom, equally. Whilst I personally may not like somebody burning a flag or insulting me, I'll damn well defend their right to do it, as anyone would.

If somebody blows somebody else up, or even simply plots and puts in place the mechanisms with the intent to carry out a terrorist attack, then they should face the full penalty of the law. Let us not forget that a bunch of idiots associated with Islam killing people for political motives does not equate to the entire Muslim world bearing theological responsibility for acts of terrorism, in the same way that I wouldn't blame the entire Catholic world for a Catholic boy walking into a US school and embarking upon a killing spree, nor would I seek to blame every individual atheist for the transgressions of atheist dictatorships.

Muslims are not Borg. We are individuals. Please treat us as such and don't judge us by the actions of a few.

Additionally, once a person becomes a legal citizen of Britain, they are then one of "us". A fellow Brit with an equal say in our society, not, as some would have it, a second class citizen simply because they were not born here or happen to hold a minority religious belief. My experience with immigrants who live in the UK is that they work damn hard to build a life for their family, just like the rest of us. Simply demonising 'non-indigenous' people for seeking a better life and actually succeeding against the odds is abhorrent.

Originally Posted by alfred the great:
Has enoch powell said we must be mad.YES WELCOME PCIF,can i hear your thoughts on the above please ?.

My position on allowing foreigners to become British is that we should probably tighten up criteria for letting people in. I've had several friends move to Australia and they seem quite stringent. You have to have minimum qualifications, a certain amount of money in your bank account, a job offer helps, etc. But as far as sending back any existing UK citizen because they are not 'indigenous', or happen not to be Catholic (10% of the UK is atheist according to the last census) well, that is out of the question as far as I'm concerned. I've yet to see any sort of compelling economic argument, but even if the maths stood up to scrutiny, my moral alarm bells tingle at the very thought of it. Plus, if you think the NHS is bad now, try running it without the many highly qualified foreigners and 'non-Indigenous' Brits upon which it relies.
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Originally Posted by Mikeuk:
I think I'm going to put you on ignore.

Then how will you :-) and spam me? What will your purpose at this forum be then?
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Originally Posted by :

This is the only country i know, thats allows people come to live here from overseas, lets them ,burn our flag , insult us , some of them even try to blow us up.

Actually Australia and France have also allowed that and I believe Holland.
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Originally Posted by Seasider:
Absolutely alfred the great.

So, whypatcondellisntfun, would you maybe have an explanation for these pictures.

(I know it wasn't addressed to me, but nonetheless...)
Perhaps that they're the religious equivalent of Greenpeace?
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Originally Posted by Seasider:
Absolutely alfred the great.

So, whypatcondellisntfun, would you maybe have an explanation for these pictures.

You know those people are not in fact all British Muslims?
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Originally Posted by BonnieDundee:
You know those people are not in fact all British Muslims?

Yes I know that, but they are muslims would you agree with that?

Their behaviour is directed to European countries where they feel they have been offended.

These pictures below are from Britain

The baby is wearing a hat that says 'I love Al Qaeda'
This little baby also looks frightened as whatever the demo was about it was no place for a baby who could only ever have been frightened by the crowd.
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Originally Posted by Seasider:
Absolutely alfred the great.

So, whypatcondellisntfun, would you maybe have an explanation for these pictures.

I refer you to my reply to Alfred The Great, and would also like to agree with Akira, although it is a lighthearted way of putting it, that they are the religious equivalent of Greenpeace, as it were.

Where are the Mulsims denouncing terrorism? Well, it just doesn't make for exciting news, does it? Not half as exciting as a dude with a hook for a hand claiming to be spokesman for the entire Muslim world, which is the equivalent of getting the KKK to speak for the entire voice of Christianity.

Thankfully, we have Google.

Image

November 01, 2001

Originally Posted by :
Representative Joseph Pitts (Republican of Pennsylvania) in an October 30 speech to the House of Representatives quoted the Grand Shaykh of Al-Azhar in Egypt, whom he referred to as "the highest and most respected Islamic authority in the world," on the types of acts forbidden by the Koran.

Shaykh Tantawi has stated that the Koran "specifically forbids the kinds of things the Taliban and al-Qaida are guilty of," Pitts said.

Shaykh Tantawi, Pitts continued, has said that the "jihad" Usama bin Laden has called for against America "is invalid and not binding on Muslims."

Pitts quoted the Grand Shaykh as saying, "Islam rejects all of these acts." The Shaykh added that terrorism is un-Islamic, Pitts said.

"Killing innocent civilians is a horrific, hideous act that no religion can approve," Pitts quoted the religious leader as saying.

Tahirul Qadri, who at the time headed the Pakistani Awami Tehrik Party said :

Originally Posted by :
"Bombing embassies or destroying non-military installations like the World Trade Center is no jihad," Qadri said, and "those who launched the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks not only killed thousands of innocent people in the United States but also put the lives of millions of Muslims across the world at risk."

Statement signed by 199 Muslim scholars from around the globe. Saying :

Originally Posted by :
"We wish again to state unequivocally that neither the al-Qaeda organization nor Usama bin Laden represents Islam or reflects Muslim beliefs and practice. Rather, groups like al-Qaeda have misused and abused Islam in order to fit their own radical and indeed anti-Islamic agenda"

Anti-terror rally held in Oct. 2001 attended by both Muslim and non-Muslim families.

A meeting of more than 500 Muslim scholars and leaders (one third of whom were women) meeting in Dubai in November 2004 agreed that:

Originally Posted by :
...extremism and meaningless violence are alien to the spirit and nature of Islam, the experts unanimously condemned the growing trend among a few misguided elements in Muslim societies of adopting extremism. They pointed out that Islam does not sanctify anarchy that endangers human lives and destroys peace.

A Common Word Between Us and You, is a document produced in October 2007 by 138 Muslim Clerics/Scholars/Leaders. It emphasises that love for God and love for neighbor is common ground between Christianity and Islam. Since then it has grown to include 256 signatories of prominent Muslims.

Muslim tip offs leads to terrorist arrests

An influential group of Muslim theologians in India have denounced terrorism, saying it is completely against the teachings of Islam. Their statements were made at a meeting held at the Darul-Uloom Deoband, a powerful Islamic school more than 150 years old. Scholars from 6,000 religious schools attended the meeting.

Here is a substantial list of Muslim groups and leaders condemning terrorist attacks.
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Originally Posted by Seasider:
These pictures below are from Britain

The baby is wearing a hat that says 'I love Al Qaeda'
This little baby also looks frightened as whatever the demo was about it was no place for a baby who could only ever have been frightened by the crowd.

Firstly, I'm not bothered if those pictures are in Britain or not, they do not represent the majority feeling of Muslims. It is easy to post 5 pictures and spout a few soundbites, but unfortunately, the world requires more attention to detail than can be provided by a few pictures. Please so my post for a more robust discussion, and then see if you can match the scale and scope of the references I cite.

Secondly. I call into question the picture of the baby. Frankly, it looks heavily Photoshopped to me, and I'd love to see where you got the picture from originally.

Thirdly. The burning of Salman Rushdies' book is again an expression of freedom of speech. Within 5 minutes I could find videos on YouTube of people flushing the Qur'an down the toilet, setting fire to it, chainsawing it. Do I want to kill the people doing that? No.

I don't find it half as offensive as threatening another 9/11. Burning a book, as far as I know, isn't illegal and does not in itself constitute a threat upon the life of Rushdie. Anybody seeking to physically harm Rushdie should face the full penalty of the law.
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