Labour's proposed welfare reforms, if that is what they are, are worth studying for the kind of language that is used.
So far I've noticed that there's an `expected to seek work', and I think there's also an `encouraged to seek work' in the proposals, but I don't think that there's a `compelled to seek work' in them.
Do you know, Labour, it's a funny thing but I expect and encourage things to happen all the time. But the strange thing is, I'm often disappointed.
Yes, it's true, when you expect and encourage people to do something they don't always do it. Now there's a bit of news for you!
By the way, does anyone on the forum have a `Star Invalidity Benefit Claimant' that they would like to nominate for a kind of Invalidity Benefit Claimant Oscar ceremony that I'm thinking of organising?
I met a promising contender last week. He's young and talented - only about 20 - so he has youth on his side - and what's more he has never done a day's work in his life!
Beat that for a good grounding - basic training if you like, for a career in the welfare state, for a role in Labour's Britain!
But that's not all! Oh no, it gets better, because he is proud to announce that he is now on invalidity benefit! Yes, his doctor - or should that be his theatrical agent - has agreed that he has a `nervous disposition' and is therefore unfit to work!
But do you know, I have a photo of him, and in this photo he has miraculously overcome his disability and is fighting someone as part of a medieval re-enactment, at a local public event.
Prior to meeting him my leading contender was a local Labour Councillor who is claiming invalidity benefit. He is supposed to be unfit for work because of a back problem - which is totally boring I know because they all have a back problem - and he is supposed to require a walking stick.
But do you know, on a certain web site there's a photo of him distributing Labour electoral material through letterboxes - minus his walking stick!
I mean, if he is capable of delivering election material you would expect and encourage him to admit that he's capable of doing some kind of job, wouldn't you, really? You might even expect and encourage him to actually get a job.
But you wouldn't compel him to get a job, would you..
[Rep]

Not sure I undertstand your point about the various words used bornfree.

I didn't understand what the practical difference between expected, encouraged and compelled means (I'm not too familiar with the welfare system luckily).

What does the policy mean in reality ?
I thought I read if people had been unemployed for more than 2 years they would have to do community work ? Or is it more complex than that or other rules in play ?
To be honest I don't know - can you inform me ?

By the way, interesting story !

Can't you send those photos to a national newspaper ? (not sure whether they'd print the story though)
[Rep]

Sounds more like a proposal for slave labour to me.
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Nothing will happen till the money runs out. The welfare state has become a runaway monster. We are now into second generation families who have never worked.

The nettle will have to be grasped one day. This lot havent got the balls but soon the tax payer will have had enough. Nothing will or can happen overnight. But how can we go on paying kids to knock out kids as a way of life?

Maybe yet another example of how our society will need to become bankrupt financially before we can emerge with some sort of soul.

And as for 'slave labour'! No the workers are the slaves. Slaves to the tax syestem so perfectly able adults are allowed to languish on the dole.
[Rep]

Originally Posted by brian pearson:
Maybe yet another example of how our society will need to become bankrupt financially before we can emerge with some sort of soul.

I would rather say "our society will need to become bankrupt financially" before they can admit they've been hurt and manipulated by the corrupt system.

Unfortunately it will happen and more unfortunately it may then be too late to reverse it.
[Rep]

If one looks at the economic history the welfare state for its problems is better than capitalism without it. At least for boom and bust and depressions.

It is quite simple, history seems to suggest that removing the welfare state and dropping gov't spending greatly to pre-war levels is likely to cause boom and bust and real depressions unless the economic system is amended some how.
[Rep]

Does anybody here agree with me that the Job Centre is a national joke?

Rather interestingly, a few nationalists support the concept of a citizen's income.
[Rep]

A natural system would be where our people get priority for available jobs. As long as the government and employers encourage cheap labour here and disposses us then we need this welfare system. However, it is a strange system that makes it pay for people to refuse work rather than lose housing benefits.
[Rep]

Originally Posted by :
Does anybody here agree with me that the Job Centre is a national joke?

Rather interestingly, a few nationalists support the concept of a citizen's income.

Yep I agree thoroughly. I had a situation happen years ago that made me decide frankly it was a waste of time have the Job Centre and JSA if you are even remotely interested in a job.

I was awaiting a visa to come through so I could work abroad and during this period of time I had to move out of my flat as the lease was up for renewal and I knew there was no point in signing up for another 6 months when my visa may arrive in 1 or 2 months.
So I packed my current job in as I had to move out of my flat and decided to move in with my folks some 250 miles away whilst I awaited my work visa. During this time I decided to look for some paid contracting work and thought (stupidly) I'd see if the job centre had anything going.... hahahahaha!

I went in and explained the situation and the woman suggested I sign up to JSA since I was entitled to it.
At any rate the amount of forms I had to fill in, then all the hassle I got off them made me decide to just not bother signing up for the JSA or using the job centre. It had no I.T work in its database at all, and the cheeky buggers started asking for written statements from me on why I had left my previous job and moved, and started asking for letters from my previous employer, even though I had fileld in all the forms and given a statement.

At any rate my visa came through about 6 weeks after that and I was outta here!

I learnt after that, don't bother with it. If you have paid into the system then you have a hard job geting anything back out of it.

Ea of dune
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I get the impression that the Job Centre is the modern day equivalent of the Roman slave market. All it really offers are casual and low skilled jobs. The Job Centre staff have little understanding of the employment market and are often unable to provide useful help and advice.

Another noteworthy point is that nearly 99% of all jobs offered in the Job Centre are in the private sector. If the Job Centre staff had access to all public sector jobs then there might be a reason to have the Job Centre. But the fact is, they have no access to most public sector jobs or even the websites that they are advertised on.
[Rep]