Are the Liberal Democrats a Party or a Pressure Group

What is the evolution of a pressure group into a party? Is the definition of a real party is one that could form a government? Alternatively do you need to be likely to form a government to be a real party? How about real parties are those which "Seriously expect to be the next government". Or are real parties "In power after the next general election"

Actually this could mean the only real party in the UK are the Labour Party. Even the Tories only aspire to be the next government. So maybe the Tory Party exists to be pressure group to influence the Labour Government. Does this make UKIP is a pressure group to a pressure group? However, let’s expand the definition to "Have been in Power at some time" so the Tories can be upgraded from Pressure Group to Party.

On this scale both the Lib-Dems and UKIP only exist in the "could" scenario as it is possible but in reality no one seriously expects them to form the next government, although I suppose you could argue it’s likely the Lib-Dems will influence the next government if there is a hung parliament.

However, it seems an inescapable conclusion that apart from Labour, Conservatives and the Liberals (NOT THE LIB-DEMS!!!!) EVERYONE is a more or a less successful pressure group with the Lib-dems leading the pack. If you define the SDP as a pressure group to influence Labour thinking then the Lib-Dems have nerver been a real party ever, they are only a pressure group.

Why do people keep endlessly raking up the past? UKIP has stated its intention to develop develop policies and structures to enable it to function as a political party. End of discussion, let’s move on!

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The question at the top of this page is "Are the Liberal Democrats a party or pressure group?"

What they are is a nasty, vile, trouble-making bunch of political opportunists and fanatical europhiles which UKIP could beat in most places if it put its mind to it.

The europhile Liberal Dims are the political arm of the EU in the UK posing as a British political party. They have two policies: to get a particular type of proportional voting system which benefits them but stops the rise of UKIP and to promote EU control of our country (i.e. transfer remaining sovereign powers of the UK to the EU and to destroy the British Pound).

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The Lib Dems are a bunch of Eu fanatics who check which way the politcal wind is blowing before they make any attempt at a policy prounacement.

They are lead by what appears to resemble a mummyfication which has gone ghastly wrong and several of the others have the sexual morals of alleycats.

You may conclude from this that I am not at all keen on them.

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Moved here (lib dem zone).

For my money they are a party, but a totaly useless one, as like the other two, want to hand over all remaining power to the EU, thus making them redundant anyway.

So they certainly aren't a pressure group, and they are just a meek carbon copy of a party.

The one area they could have done some good, the war, they were meek and feeble and may as well not been there. Didn't give Blair the hell they could have.l

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Originally Posted by tamashi:
Is the definition of a real party is one that could form a government?
...
However, it seems an inescapable conclusion that apart from Labour, Conservatives and the Liberals (NOT THE LIB-DEMS!!!!) EVERYONE is a more or a less successful pressure group
...

You are missing the point. You are looking for a clear cut definition of a word so that you can shoe horn UKIP into it. You're after a dictionary - preferably a very small one with only one, short explanation per word.
"everyone pressures everyone else, therefore everyone is a pressure group" - sigh, no.
"UKIP stands candidates, therefore it is a political party, end of story" - sigh, no.

Originally Posted by :
UKIP has stated its intention to develop develop policies and structures to enable it to function as a political party. End of discussion, let’s move on!

And this is what will define the UKIP. However, what you say it has stated and what it will do are not necessarily the same thing. Having a full manifesto is useless if the leadership only ever target one other political party, or if the manifesto itself is geared to targeting one other party.

To answer the original question, the Lib-Dems are a political party, but they are under the misguided impression that everyone who votes for them supports their policies :-)

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Do UKIP target only one party, or do they target the party that stands in the way of progress?

UKIP often say there is no difference between the old parties. UKIPs policies are far away from the ruling Labour class, but the 1 in 5 people who vote Labour, probably always will. Through everything they have done, 1 in 5 still vote for them and I'm not sure what you can do to stop that.

So you have the 4 in 5 to aim at. Those 4 in 5 obviously don't like Labour, to varying degrees. So what it the most damaging thing to be called?

Labour.

Blue Labour

LibLabConsensus.

Then pointing out why the other parties are no different, which I think UKIP do, even if they tend to focus on the biggest bunch of liars, who pretend they are the opposite of Labour.

Can UKIP do lots of things better, oh yes. Hopefuly money and members will help make sure that happens.

At some point hopefully, people will say in big numbers, sod LibLabCon, we want something different. Then UKIP, or a combination of UKIP and something else will be there to capitalise.

My biggest fear is 1 in 5 stick with Labour no matter what, 1 in 5 stick with Blue Labour no matter what and .6 in 5.

That's 2.6 in 5, which = majority for the EU consensus. So obliterating one of them, may be the first step that needs to be done. Then you can focus on the other two.

Is focussing on the pretend opposition such a bad idea for now? That's open to opinion. We all know what Labour are, yet people still vote for them.

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Dim Libs are A waste of space

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They are just a protest party.
If we ever do get PR they will disapear.

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Originally Posted by This-England:
They are just a protest party.
If we ever do get PR they will disapear.

I agree that if proportional voting came in the europhile Liberal Dims would splinter :twisted: and be pushed out of the way by more successful parties such as UKIP :twisted: (and possibly by a party or parties which haven't even been formed yet).

The only other policy the Dim Liberals have, apart from wanting proportional voting, is their fanatical support for the EU :evil: . And that, understandably is not popular with the voters. Which is why the Dim Liberals are keeping quiet about their wish to destroy the Pound and British sovereignty (what's left of it).

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