Originally Posted by ukpopdems:
We are proposing a two stage public vote.
Do you want in or out?

If the result is to stay in, then another vote:
Do you want a United States of Europe?

That would be a far more productive route for UKIP and their ilk to take.

Say the answers are "in" and "We don't want a United States of Europe".

So negotiations are conducted on the basis of being in and reforming it to what we want, a much looser federation and mainly a trading bloc. The other 26 say no, you're in, and the whole purpose of the project is a single European state, in case you haven't noticed.

And then you're going to ..........?

Originally Posted by ukpopdems:
That would be a far more productive route for UKIP and their ilk to take.

I beg to differ. It looks more like a full frontal attack on a carefully prepared defensive position. Magnificent, but not war.
[Rep]

Originally Posted by ukpopdems:
UKpopdems have done a fair bt of research on this for our policies.

The facts are these
1. The majority of Britons don't want a Federal, United, single-state Europe
2. The majority of Britons do not want to leave the EU

Your research clashes with my research. Mine says:

The facts are these
1. The majority of Britons can't be arsed.

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Having said that, I'm half thinking I'm actually going to vote Labour at the next GE. Reasoning:

1) The people need more and more major screw ups before they start to wake up.
2) Camoron sucks, and needs to be shown that he sucks.

I will, of course, be composing a letter to the Tories explaining why I'll be voting Labour. Howard didn't take any notice so I don't see why Camoron would, but still.
[Rep]

I would agree that most Brits can not be arsed however you have to ask why?

So WHY?
1. because of a deliberate policy by this Mob in power and Parliament generally, to hide the truth of the effect and cost that the EU has on Joe Public. For instance: Plastic bags. EU directed. Spy in your car.EU directed. Yet the mob try to convince Joe that they thought them up and he does not even question that.
When it is pointed out to Joe the real reason for the "unelected super Councils" is preparation for Direct EU rule he does not believe it could/will happen because Nanny has not said so.
2.Joe lives (Should I say lived) in a cloud cuckoo land world of easy credit, morononic TV soaps that he/she thinks are real life, and seriously believes that he has a job forever.
3. Joe pays more tax now than ever before including WW2, yet he is unaware of the situation because the tax is not income tax but stealth tax and he is either too stupid to understand this or can't see the wood for the trees.

One could go on however one has to say what is the point?
[Rep]

Originally Posted by mkpdavies:
I have just realised something.

The Lib Dems have said they will

a) Scrap ID cards.
b) Give us a referendum on EU membership.

That's pretty much my immediete concerns.

Why shouldn't I vote for them in the Tory/Lib Dem Marginal, where the Tory doesn't offer us a referendum and his party are wishy washy on the ID card issue.

Yes yes, I understand they are a bunch of Europhile socialist scumbags, but then so are the others. They hate freedom and they will smack us hard with their idiotic mission to control the planets climate.

BUT. We will have the chance to get out of the EU. Finally the people will either save the country or consign it to the dustbin of history.

Blue Labour won't give us any relief and neither will Old Labour. Indeed, they will just implement the same crazy plans as the Lib Dems, as commanded by their EU masters.

I have the choice of a turd, a mouldy turd or a rancid turd, but with a little nugget of cold in it. That little nugget of gold could be the only chance we have.

Why not?

Because like the other two corrupt self serving parties they will promise you just about anything to get into power.
[Rep]

Do you think they would go back on the promise then?
[Rep]

Nice one, John.

Of the top one hundred surveyed on the EU:
Survey says - top answer: 'Can't be arsed'
You got it!
That's one reason UKpopdems are supporting the pressure for an EU treaty vote - we were at the rally. Getting a vote on that would tell us and everyone, including Lib/Dems, where the people really stand.

Actually, we know the result already, because Brown won't hold one.
[Rep]

Originally Posted by mkpdavies:
Do you think they would go back on the promise then?

Name me a party/leader that hasn't.

I thought i read a partial smoking ban in the Labour manifesto or what about "no new tax rises", i also thought i heard Cameron say he would remove his MEPs from their European grouping if he became leader. need i say more
[Rep]

I agree. If a miracle did happen and they won, they would worm out of it, just as the Labour wing of our EU government have.

I would have to hear a party make a strong, repeated message for this policy before I could back them.
[Rep]

I talk to LibDem politicians. I ask them why the reasonable things they say in public at least most of the time, turn into the most crack-pot, crazy policies.

It turns out that the members actually FORM POLICY at their conference. Yeah! So instead of the leaders ignoring the voices of a few unelected crazies at conference, they are forced to write them into policy.

It's their own CLAUSE 4 problem and LibDems will never be electable untl they solve it.
[Rep]