Originally Posted by BonnieDundee:
You You clearly don't like the Lib dems and like the Tories.

Yes - you are right, BonnieDundee: I do not like the europhile Liberal 'Democrats' (something which has been very obvious to those who have been members of the forum for some time) and notice that the Liberal 'Democrat' candidate only got 9% of the first preference vote in the London Mayoral Election of 1.5.2008. Which, of course, means that 91% of those who voted in the first round did not want the Liberal Democrat' candidate.

In fact, taking into account the number that did not vote at all (in the London Mayoral Election this month) - the actual number of all those entitled to vote who had the Liberal 'Democrat' candidate as their first choice and who voted for him in the first round of voting was less than 5% of all electors here in the capital.

In other words - 19 out of every 20 people here in London entitled to vote in this month's Mayoral elections did not vote for the Liberal 'Democrat' candidate in the first round.
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Originally Posted by BonnieDundee:
You are very biased in your analysis of this situation I'm afraid Britannist.

Biased? I am just stating plain facts.

Originally Posted by :
BonnieDundee wrote: ...it does seem however that more people prefered the Lib dem candidate, if not to all candidates, to Boris Johnson.

Not true - the figures speak for themselves:

London Mayoral Election 1.5.2008 -

67.9% did not give their second preference vote to Paddick (the Liberal 'Democrat' candidate). 90.2% did not give their first preference voto europhile Paddick.

Boris Johnson MP (Conservative)

First preference votes: 1, 043, 751
Second preference votes: 124, 977
Total votes (first and second preference): 1, 168, 738

'Ken' Livingstone (Labour)

First preference votes: 893, 877
Second preference votes: 135, 089
Total votes (first and second preference): 1, 028, 966

Paddick (europhile Liberal 'Democrats')

First preference votes: 236, 685
Second preference votes: 641, 412
Total votes (first and second preference): 878, 097

* As well as getting a worse result in the 2008 London Mayoral Election than they got in 2004 - the Liberal 'Democrats' also lost two of their five seats :-) on the London Assembly in the Assembly election held on 1.5.2008.
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Originally Posted by kernow:
I must confess if I'd been able to vote, Paddick wouldn't have been my 31st choice even if there had been only 30 standing!

Good for you, Kernow. You have seen clearly for many years that the europhile Liberal 'Democrats' are the political arm of the EU in the UK.
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Originally Posted by Britannist:
Biased? I am just stating plain facts.



Not true - the figures speak for themselves:

London Mayoral Election 1.5.2008 -

67.9% did not give their second preference vote to Paddick (the Liberal 'Democrat' candidate). 90.2% did not give their first preference voto europhile Paddick.

Boris Johnson MP (Conservative)

First preference votes: 1, 043, 751
Second preference votes: 124, 977
Total votes (first and second preference): 1, 168, 738

'Ken' Livingstone (Labour)

First preference votes: 893, 877
Second preference votes: 135, 089
Total votes (first and second preference): 1, 028, 966

Paddick (europhile Liberal 'Democrats')

First preference votes: 236, 685
Second preference votes: 641, 412
Total votes (first and second preference): 878, 097

* As well as getting a worse result in the 2008 London Mayoral Election than they got in 2004 - the Liberal 'Democrats' also lost two of their five seats :-) on the London Assembly in the Assembly election held on 1.5.2008.

Well if that data is correct then you are right, I was just going on the OP's information.
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I think i can see where Frith is going here. Not sure however who he believes will metamorphise into the Butterly warriors (Lib Dem's?) or the Green Warriors (BNP?).

Yes there is a niche for someone promoting 'Libertarian' ideas without the 'social liberal' baggage but that is more likely to be filled by the new Libertarian or National Liberal Parties. Any attempt by the Lib Dem's to follow that route will see them split with the libertarian wing joining the others. Equally a new force is likely to embrace his 'clean' nationalism rather than the BNP (but they might split like the Lib Dem's).

In reality it's likely to be much more complicated and messy than a novel's happy ending but it nevertheless makes a change to view political development through an 'heroic' lens. Although often unrealistic such prose can be quite inspiring.
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Originally Posted by MAZZINI:
I think i can see where Frith is going here. Not sure however who he believes will metamorphise into the Butterly warriors (Lib Dem's?) or the Green Warriors (BNP?).

Yes there is a niche for someone promoting 'Libertarian' ideas without the 'social liberal' baggage but that is more likely to be filled by the new Libertarian or National Liberal Parties. Any attempt by the Lib Dem's to follow that route will see them split with the libertarian wing joining the others. Equally a new force is likely to embrace his 'clean' nationalism rather than the BNP (but they might split like the Lib Dem's).

In reality it's likely to be much more complicated and messy than a novel's happy ending but it nevertheless makes a change to view political development through an 'heroic' lens. Although often unrealistic such prose can be quite inspiring.

Thank you. I thought the butterfly warriors (bit Japanese that, isn't it, or Celtic :-)) would be a renewed liberal political ideology embracing the best of libertarian philosophy and liberal democratic government, with, as you mention, a goodbye to the socialist and social democratic alliances. And the new conservative or new new right as a form of nation-oriented civilization builders who had a lot in common with the new liberals but who saw universalism as a danger and preferred to limit globalised functions to environmental issues, world health, and disaster relief with international scientific bases in strategic areas to monitor volcanic and seismic activity and weather patterns, insect plagues and diseases, etc, as well as scan the heavens for rogue satellites and errant meteors.

The iconic picture is divine, yes, the real deal will be "messy", as you say. Humans have not yet learned the value of cooperativeness without falling into the trap of religious brotherhood. Humans haven't observed nature correctly, but once they do, things in our world may change.
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