Originally Posted by a swansong 4 europe:
The problem is, Tom, is that having destroyed/replaced one internationalist federal body, the prospect of replacing it with another one is likely to be the long term aim of those Liberal internationalists that dominate the Liberal elite, only that next time, they will 'get it right'.

It is not a case of not getting my vote, but more of honesty in the long-term aims of any party's agenda in areas critical to its philosophy. If I thought the Liberals would take us out of Europe and allow us the privilege of some sort of Swiss style neutrality, then fair enough. But if it is simply to "reform" the EU with another new, super improved mark II type EU, then no, it would not get my support.

A Commonwealth of Europe, which if I recall is the LP wish, would be a fair representation of what the majority want [cut political & economic ties], which could go on to be a Commonwealth of Nations if the Commonwealth countries were included.
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‘The LP would have to adapt itself significantly to accommodate UKIP members’ you could simply adapt the party yourselves. Assembly attendances haven’t gone above double figures in the last decade; ninety ex-UKipers could take the party over

But what would you be getting, the continuity Liberal Party no longer has a HQ, a generous donor, or any paid employees.
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Originally Posted by Dilke:
‘The LP would have to adapt itself significantly to accommodate UKIP members’ you could simply adapt the party yourselves. Assembly attendances haven’t gone above double figures in the last decade; ninety ex-UKipers could take the party over

But what would you be getting, the continuity Liberal Party no longer has a HQ, a generous donor, or any paid employees.

It does have a hell of a lot of councillors (in UKIP terms).
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Originally Posted by Dilke:
‘The LP would have to adapt itself significantly to accommodate UKIP members’ you could simply adapt the party yourselves. Assembly attendances haven’t gone above double figures in the last decade; ninety ex-UKipers could take the party over

But what would you be getting, the continuity Liberal Party no longer has a HQ, a generous donor, or any paid employees.

The name is valuable. It is very difficult for a brand new party to be considered as a potential government and that is what must be the ambition if there is to be any change in our relationship with Europe. The Liberal Party has a history - even if the current owners of the name do not have an entirely genuine entitlement.

It is not very expensive to run a internet based party.
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For years Tom argued with me when I told him that

(1) He was an unpatriotic leftist
(2) UKIP is a party of diehard reactionary ex-Tories - not for him at all.

Now he has proved both by joining the Liberal Miniparty.
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Originally Posted by a swansong 4 europe:
But there are those on this forum that do seem to think they have mileage outside of Liverpool, so why should they think any other "Liberal" collective should do better?

Save St Georges Hall and the Orange Lodges and Liverpool and its scummy denizens can sink beneath the waves forever as far as I am concerned
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HM the Cornish Nationalist have a lot of cllrs by UKIP standards! But UKIP has a lot of money, and members, (plus the credibility that comes from MEPs, Peers, and one MP) by minor party standards. The very slow decline in councillors (about 46 in 1989 to 27 today) hides the much steeper decline of the party’s fortune in the same period. Membership has dropped from over a thousand to a couple of hundred, the number of seats contested at all levels has dropped significantly. The number of cllrs will continue to decline slowly as longstanding cllrs with personal votes retire or expire. The continuity Liberal Party has the air of the Jacobite court in exile about it.

M3 The name is valuable it would be if there wasn’t another larger and internationally recognised claimant, and a plethora of other ‘one man and his dog’ so-called Liberal parties; as it is there will be endless confusion, as the Liberal Democrats are often referred to as 'the Liberals' by friend and foe alike, Gordon Brown calls the Liberal Democrats 'the Liberal Party'. I suppose someone could form a party called the Tory Party, but it would spend half its time explaining it wasn’t the Conservative Party. Then there is the merger referendum – 88% voted to merge with the SDP to form the Liberal Democrats, a party that chooses to ignore the result of that referendum can hardly lecture others on democracy and ignoring the wishes of the people.
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Originally Posted by Dilke:
HM the Cornish Nationalist have a lot of cllrs by UKIP standards! But UKIP has a lot of money, and members, (plus the credibility that comes from MEPs, Peers, and one MP) by minor party standards. The very slow decline in councillors (about 46 in 1989 to 27 today) hides the much steeper decline of the party’s fortune in the same period. Membership has dropped from over a thousand to a couple of hundred, the number of seats contested at all levels has dropped significantly. The number of cllrs will continue to decline slowly as longstanding cllrs with personal votes retire or expire. The continuity Liberal Party has the air of the Jacobite court in exile about it.

M3 The name is valuable it would be if there wasn’t another larger and internationally recognised claimant, and a plethora of other ‘one man and his dog’ so-called Liberal parties; as it is there will be endless confusion, as the Liberal Democrats are often referred to as 'the Liberals' by friend and foe alike, Gordon Brown calls the Liberal Democrats 'the Liberal Party'. I suppose someone could form a party called the Tory Party, but it would spend half its time explaining it wasn’t the Conservative Party. Then there is the merger referendum – 88% voted to merge with the SDP to form the Liberal Democrats, a party that chooses to ignore the result of that referendum can hardly lecture others on democracy and ignoring the wishes of the people.

The problem which seems to be worth resolving, before the event, is what happens to UKIP activists if/when the party fades away - and this seems very likely to me as I cannot see members enthusiastically campaigning to return more MEP's to Brussels after their experiences with the last lot. On the bases that you could not join the BNP because of their racism - the Liberal Party is about all that is left.
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M3, UKIPers would be joining the continuity Liberal Party because of its perceived euro-sceptic stance, not because they are liberals – I’m not sure they’d be that comfortable in the con Libs; but even if only a few hundred join, I guess they would be a large enough group to change things. Steve Radford is already moving the con Libs to a UKIP-lite position so they wouldn’t be totally unwelcome.

The irony is delicious, the continuity Liberal Party was set up to be a ‘true’ Liberal party, yet could end up having its (if it hasn’t already) liberalism diluted by an unofficial merger with the moderate wing of UKIP.

The United Kingdom Liberal Party - UKLiP.
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Originally Posted by Dilke:
M3, UKIPers would be joining the continuity Liberal Party because of its perceived euro-sceptic stance, not because they are liberals – I’m not sure they’d be that comfortable in the con Libs; but even if only a few hundred join, I guess they would be a large enough group to change things. Steve Radford is already moving the con Libs to a UKIP-lite position so they wouldn’t be totally unwelcome.

The irony is delicious, the continuity Liberal Party was set up to be a ‘true’ Liberal party, yet could end up having its (if it hasn’t already) liberalism diluted by an unofficial merger with the moderate wing of UKIP.

The United Kingdom Liberal Party - UKLiP.

As I think you have already said, the LP constitution is extremely democratic - ordinary members can propose new policies and, if they are popular, have them adopted. It would be interesting to see what this mix produced. One thing seems certain - both groups would benefit from the experience and likely produce a far more voter friendly party - keeping in mind that 70% of the electorate don't want the LT solution.
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