The terrible thing is that otherwise sane people believe such rubbish.

The even more terrible thing is what the fools then do to others based on a stupid superstition that drives what can only possibly be described not as a religion but as a cult.
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Originally Posted by Tony Bennett:
One of the reasons why the consummation of the betrothal of Aisha to the Prophet Mohammed at the age of 9 should be a fact not covered up, but made public.

He was 51 and she 6 [sic] when they were betrothed.

He was 54 and she 9 when he summoned her from her mother's tent to his tent so he could have sexual intercourse with her for the first time.

There are still those who say it's best to keep quiet about it.

And you won't find it mentioned in any U.K. school textbook about Islam:

Editorial: Heroic fight against forced marriages | Dallas Morning News | News for Dallas, Texas | Opinion: Editorials
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You seem to be focusing upon the age of Aisha, when actually, the lesson of Mohammed (pbuh) is related to her sexual maturity. Your post demonstrates this.

They were betrothed when she was 6, why did he wait until she was 9 to consummate the marriage? The answer is because he waited for her puberty to signify that she was mature.

The age of Aisha was not the key to sexual relations. But her maturity was. If it was the intention of Mohammed to simply have sex with a young girl, why wait 3 whole years? He was a religious and political leader. He was betrothed to Aisha and the whole community knew it. What stopped him him from marrying her and consummating the marriage whenever he wanted? Why did he wait a whole 3 years?

The actual lesson that Mohammed (pbuh) taught us is that the minimum requirement for taking a wife is that she is physically sexually mature and capable of rearing a child. Does this mean that we should all marry 9 year old girls? No. Not at all. Women may become sexually mature at various ages, but Mohammed (pbuh) showed that the minimum one must do is wait for sexual maturity to occur before marriage is allowed. Is that a bad thing?

You present Aisha as if she was the only example by which Muslims take their lessons about marriage, but Mohammed (pbuh) did not teach us that marrying exclusively 9 year old girls was permissible, otherwise, how would one explain every single one of his other wives, the first of whom was older than him and herself a widower?

Why did even the non-Muslim enemies of Mohammed (pbuh) not bat an eyelid at his marrying Aisha? Because 1400 years ago, it was acceptable to marry girls at a young age. If the people who were enemies of Mohammed (pbuh) did not make a song and dance about it then, who are we to do so now?

It was acceptable in Europe until quite recently to marry young girls, and this was in fact unrelated to the physical maturity of the girls and more related to political gain. Muhammed (pbuh) intention also was to create lasting political ties by marrying Aisha, so it wasn't all about sex you see. She was the daughter of his political and religious ally, and he sought to strengthen the bond between them.

Aish was the wife of Muhammed (pbuh) and had all the rights of a wife.

Aisha went on to be a renowned Muslim scholar being one of the most prolific contributers to the Islamic Hadith. She is one of the reasons that you know so much about Mohammed. Do you think that she would carry on within Islam after the death of Mohammed (pbuh) and contribute so much to Islamic theology without good reason?

It must also be taken into account that life spans in Arabia 1400 years ago were shorter than they are now. Childhood did not last long and there was no such thing as a teenager dossing about as a student. Kids had to grow up fast and so would have been physically and mentally more prepared for earlier marriage as there was a much smaller timeframe between childhood and adulthood than there is nowadays.

The rational facts when laid before you dispel the none-to-subtle subtext of peadophillia that runs through these kinds of accusations.

Finally, the link you post with regards to 'forced' marriages is not germane to this debate. If it is your intention to assert that Aisha was forced into marriage, linking to a newspaper story is not the way to do it. If you have evidence that Aisha was forced to marry against her will - remember, she was one of the single largest contributors of Hadith - please bring it forth for debate, otherwise, refrain from trying to link two separate and unrelated stories.
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Aardvark: "like Jonathan and David, bent as nine bob notes"

REPLY: Not a shred of evidence to support this. They were close, but there is nothing whatsoever to suggest this was in a homosexual way.

That is a perverted interrpretation of the Bible, mostly put about by homosexuals

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FROM THREE DAYS AGO:

Aardvark: "Mo was a man of his time [in consummating his marriage to Aisha when he was 54 and his bride was 9]..."

QUESTION: But also, according to himself and his followers, God's 'final messenger' on earth. Did he set his followers a good example?

FURTHER REPLY: Aardvark, have re-posted my question in the hope that you are able to help with an answer

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[Rep]

Originally Posted by Tony Bennett:
FROM THREE DAYS AGO:

Aardvark: "Mo was a man of his time [in consummating his marriage to Aisha when he was 54 and his bride was 9]..."

QUESTION: But also, according to himself and his followers, God's 'final messenger' on earth. Did he set his followers a good example?

FURTHER REPLY: Aardvark, have re-posted my question in the hope that you are able to help with an answer

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Hi Tony Bennett, thought I'd bump this as you seem to be hanging around this thread but perhaps you have not seen my reply?

Please view my reply (somewhere above) to your post and I do hope you are able to discuss it with me at some point.
[Rep]

You can't give the man wrong when he's right.
[Rep]

Originally Posted by The Bear:
You can't give the man wrong when he's right.

What a stunning analysis, thanks for that quality post.
[Rep]

whypatcondellisntfun wrote:

Originally Posted by whypatcondellisntfun:
You seem to be focusing upon the age of Aisha, when actually, the lesson of Mohammed (pbuh) is related to her sexual maturity. Your post demonstrates this.

They were betrothed when she was 6, why did he wait until she was 9 to consummate the marriage? The answer is because he waited for her puberty to signify that she was mature.

The age of Aisha was not the key to sexual relations. But her maturity was. If it was the intention of Mohammed to simply have sex with a young girl, why wait 3 whole years? He was a religious and political leader. He was betrothed to Aisha and the whole community knew it. What stopped him him from marrying her and consummating the marriage whenever he wanted? Why did he wait a whole 3 years?

The actual lesson that Mohammed (pbuh) taught us is that the minimum requirement for taking a wife is that she is physically sexually mature and capable of rearing a child. Does this mean that we should all marry 9 year old girls? No. Not at all. Women may become sexually mature at various ages, but Mohammed (pbuh) showed that the minimum one must do is wait for sexual maturity to occur before marriage is allowed. Is that a bad thing?

You present Aisha as if she was the only example by which Muslims take their lessons about marriage, but Mohammed (pbuh) did not teach us that marrying exclusively 9 year old girls was permissible, otherwise, how would one explain every single one of his other wives, the first of whom was older than him and herself a widower?

Why did even the non-Muslim enemies of Mohammed (pbuh) not bat an eyelid at his marrying Aisha? Because 1400 years ago, it was acceptable to marry girls at a young age. If the people who were enemies of Mohammed (pbuh) did not make a song and dance about it then, who are we to do so now?

It was acceptable in Europe until quite recently to marry young girls, and this was in fact unrelated to the physical maturity of the girls and more related to political gain. Muhammed (pbuh) intention also was to create lasting political ties by marrying Aisha, so it wasn't all about sex you see. She was the daughter of his political and religious ally, and he sought to strengthen the bond between them.

Aisha was the wife of Muhammed (pbuh) and had all the rights of a wife.

Aisha went on to be a renowned Muslim scholar being one of the most prolific contributers to the Islamic Hadith. She is one of the reasons that you know so much about Mohammed. Do you think that she would carry on within Islam after the death of Mohammed (pbuh) and contribute so much to Islamic theology without good reason?

It must also be taken into account that life spans in Arabia 1400 years ago were shorter than they are now. Childhood did not last long and there was no such thing as a teenager dossing about as a student. Kids had to grow up fast and so would have been physically and mentally more prepared for earlier marriage as there was a much smaller timeframe between childhood and adulthood than there is nowadays.

The rational facts when laid before you dispel the none-to-subtle subtext of peadophillia that runs through these kinds of accusations.

Finally, the link you post with regards to 'forced' marriages is not germane to this debate. If it is your intention to assert that Aisha was forced into marriage, linking to a newspaper story is not the way to do it. If you have evidence that Aisha was forced to marry against her will - remember, she was one of the single largest contributors of Hadith - please bring it forth for debate, otherwise, refrain from trying to link two separate and unrelated stories.

REPLY:

SOMETIME IN A.D. 623:

MAY

Mohammed (aged 54) to Aisha's mother: "Has she had her first period yet?"

Aisha's mother: "No"

Mohammed: "Well let me know when she does, won't you?

JUNE

Mohammed (aged 54) to Aisha's mother: "Has she had her first period yet?"

Aisha's mother: "No"

Mohammed: "Well let me know when she does, won't you?

JULY

Mohammed (aged 54) to Aisha's mother: "Has she had her first period yet?"

Aisha's mother: "No"

Mohammed: "Well let me know when she does, won't you?

AUGUST

Mohammed (aged 54) to Aisha's mother: "Has she had her first period yet?"

Aisha's mother: "No"

Mohammed: "Well let me know when she does, won't you?

SEPTEMBER

Mohammed (aged 54) to Aisha's mother: "Has she had her first period yet?"

Aisha's mother: "Yes. She started menstruating at the beginning of the week"

Mohammed: "Right. Send her over to my tent straightaway. She will know what to expect, won't she?"

Aisha's mother: "Yes, she does. I have prepared her"

Aisha's mother to Aisha: "Aisha, my love, my child (just about choking back tears), now is the time we have spoken about. The Prophet, the Holy One, wishes you go to his tent. You know what will happen. It is time for you to begin your new life. May it go well with you..."

Aisha (aged 9 - quietly): "Goodbye, mother..."

MARRIAGE BEGINS

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[Rep]

Originally Posted by whypatcondellisntfun:
They were betrothed when she was 6, why did he wait until she was 9 to consummate the marriage? The answer is because he waited for her puberty to signify that she was mature.

REPLY: How silly of me. I never thought of that before

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Sorry bloke, I detest Islam but that was just in bad taste.
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