Originally Posted by Tim Worstall:

Since we're all talking about what we would be able to do if elected to boost the party here's my gambit.


I can get our ideas and policies into the press(well, at least sometimes I can).

That's of some value I would submit?

Are you sure?

I should have thought that you are currently valued by The Times etc. as an independent political commentator with something interesting to say. If you were writing as a UKIP MEP you would no longer be regarded as independent, and so might find that you were less valued. Of course, if you were able to get UKIP ideas and policies into the press without having your articles attributed 'UKIP MEP', then there would be little point in your actually being one. Would there?
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"as an independent political commentator"

Well, I comment on matters economic more than political.....and the Times is well aware of my political views as well. My own view of your conundrum is that I currently get into hte papers sometimes, but as an MEP would get in more often.
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If UKIP failed to get any MEPs elected at the EU elections, is the EU pension that the existing MEPs will get enough to allow them to work full-time for UKIP developing the party domestically?
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M3, what a brilliant train of thought. Why didnt anyone think of this before hustings ? I understand that dumped MEPs get a a big fat pay off & pension so on principle of " Party & Principles before personal profit " and " vote for a new one and get one free" all sitting MEPs could have been asked to blodly campaign for members to NOT vote for themselves but vote for Sid instead !


That way we get 9 financed full timers freed up from spending time in Brussels plus a bonus of 9 or 12 new bloods !

Come on Nigel lead the way ! D
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Originally Posted by prober:
M3, what a brilliant train of thought. Why didnt anyone think of this before hustings ? I understand that dumped MEPs get a a big fat pay off & pension so on principle of " Party & Principles before personal profit " and " vote for a new one and get one free" all sitting MEPs could have been asked to blodly campaign for members to NOT vote for themselves but vote for Sid instead !


That way we get 9 financed full timers freed up from spending time in Brussels plus a bonus of 9 or 12 new bloods !

Come on Nigel lead the way ! D

Obviously those patriots who sole interest is changing our relationship with the EU will jump at this opportunity, whilst those who are looking for which trough to get their snouts into next, will vigourously decline, finding endless excuses to avoid losing access to the EU gravy train.
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I am pleased that DD has given his approval to this proposal by his silence. Well done DD for beginning to shape up!
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Originally Posted by prober:
M3, what a brilliant train of thought. Why didnt anyone think of this before hustings ? I understand that dumped MEPs get a a big fat pay off & pension so on principle of " Party & Principles before personal profit " and " vote for a new one and get one free" all sitting MEPs could have been asked to blodly campaign for members to NOT vote for themselves but vote for Sid instead !


That way we get 9 financed full timers freed up from spending time in Brussels plus a bonus of 9 or 12 new bloods !

Come on Nigel lead the way ! D

A most amusing idea indeed. Although I think it might not quite fly. I looked into this a little for some research some time ago. The pension fund (assuming the MEP is making the largest personal contribution possible) accumulates at around €25,000 a year (yes, that is astonishingly good, you're right). After 5 years they'd have a €125,000 pot, which at current annuity rates might buy them a pension of perhaps € 8,000 a year (depends upon age of course).

Not quite full time campaigning money that, not really.
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Not just a pension, but a redundancy payment as well...
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Originally Posted by Tim Worstall:
A most amusing idea indeed. Although I think it might not quite fly. I looked into this a little for some research some time ago. The pension fund (assuming the MEP is making the largest personal contribution possible) accumulates at around €25,000 a year (yes, that is astonishingly good, you're right). After 5 years they'd have a €125,000 pot, which at current annuity rates might buy them a pension of perhaps € 8,000 a year (depends upon age of course).

Not quite full time campaigning money that, not really.

Three of the MEPs have served for 10 years and two of these are of retirement age or above.

The serious point is that it is only through the HoC that any changes to our relationship with the EU can be made. This means that UKIP, or another eurosceptic party, needs to, at least, hold the balance of power at the GE after next, by which time, as we all expect, the LT will have been fully ratified and QMV comes into force.

At that time, it would be within the power of the Council of Ministers to make eurosceptic parties illegal. If that were not the case, then the integration of national laws and EU laws will be so far advanced that it will become increasingly difficult to extract ourselves from the EU's grip.

If the foregoing is a more or less accurate assessment of how things stand, then building a domestic party which has policies that appeal to the majority of voters must be the primary purpose of the party if it wishes to fulfil its mandate.

NF claims that if UKIP makes the EU elections a referendum on the LT and an increase number of MEP's are obtained then it will impact on the government to change its mind on the LT or at least hold a referendum on it. However, there is no reason to believe this will be the case, although such a result will be newspaper headlines for a few days, Brown [if he is still PM] will, a week or so later, solemnly announce that the government are convinced that the LT is good for Britain and good for the EU and the election results will be forgotten about soon after. Apart from that, there has already been good research by GlobalVision which shows that about 70% of the electorate believes there should be a referendum on the LT and if one were held, about 70% would vote no.

If this is also more or less accurate, UKIP should not be wasting much time, energy or resources on the EU elections. The BNP do not have any MEPs and they are comfortably topping UKIP in bye elections. UKIP's biggest problem is its positioning in the political divide. If their unique policy of changing our relationship with the EU is popular with the majority, it does not take a genius to realise that if it did move to the centre ground and adopted policies which appealed to both the left and right it would have a very good chance of attracting mass support. However, it is impossible to imagine this happening whilst NF is leader, he is too committed to Thatcherite policies to make such a move and by the time the next leadership elections are due, too much precious time will have been lost and it will be too late.

Reading between the lines, one must assume that NF has already given up on the LT and our membership of the EU and is now more concerned with building UKIP as a European party in alliance with similar minded parties to challenge the decisions of the Eurocrats on the way the EU develops.

However, we all know that Peter Mandleson was deadly accurate when he announced that 'we are moving into the post democratic era'. So wasting this last opportunity is a very serious decision with very serious consequences.
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M3.

A very wise posting.

We need to stop positioning ourselves as a wing of the Conservative party and, seemingly increasingly, a pan EU party. The Labour party is dying on its backside. The Conservative party is only offering more of the same. We need to be a strictly secessionist party with a message to give to all of the electorate not just disillusioned Tory voters. Millions of voters have gone AWOL in the last 15 years. We can and should be a party to appeal to the lost generation of voters with an anti-EU, pro-trade and pro-growth party with an anti-war and forward looking agenda.

No more sitting on the comfy seats in Brussels and Strasbourg politely pressing buttons and calmly stating our points of view to people who will never listen to us. Scrap BOO. It just gives lazy Tories an easy ride. Let us get angry and concentrate our limited resources on getting our people elected in the UK. Let us nick the Liberals "pavement politics" methods and get our candidates elected on councils. Then people will see us as a serious 24/7 party who are electable.
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